remove assistant

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:34 pm #32089

No greytide
No fun
No freedom

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:35 pm #32090

Antonkr's topic wrote:Remove assistant players

ftfy

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:36 pm #32091

Greytide station-wide
but seriously, this would ruin gamemodes like blob and rev

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:36 pm #32092

Spawn all Assistants in a long entry line and force them to have their entry into the station assessed by a Security Officer. We can finally put the 'approved' and 'denied' stamps to proper use.

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:39 pm #32093

Steelpoint wrote:Spawn all Assistants in a long entry line and force them to have their entry into the station assessed by a Security Officer. We can finally put the 'approved' and 'denied' stamps to proper use.

Actually, thats a cool idea. It would encourage roleplaying, and a new non-station-employee title could be made for the rejects.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:46 pm #32095

deathhoof wrote:Greytide station-wide
but seriously, this would ruin gamemodes like blob and rev

>rev
Would be interesting to see how a revolution plays out through a department
>Blob
Assistants are cannon fodder and typically departments deal with bleb better due to access to lasers and moar welders.

There
Is
No
Reason
For
Assistants
To
Exist

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:49 pm #32096

All I will say, is that a better idea is to restrict Assistants until there are no station roles left to pick from. I would also support additional 'low key' jobs being added such as Cargo Techs or Medical Doctors. New players need to start somewhere.

You know, if it was somehow possible. What if in addition to the above, that new players (First seven days or so) are allowed to play as a Assistant.

Either way, I neither approve or disapprove the removal of assistants. I'm just offering a opinion.

Post by **Jordie0608** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:55 pm #32098

I can't tell if this is a joke or not.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:29 pm #32109

Assistants all start with an implanted shock cell and cranial-implanted bomb. Security gets the Assistants' Console, which can be used to lock down or blow the assistants.

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:32 pm #32110

"STEINER'S ROGUE, BLOW THE ASSISTANTS"

14 resonating booms can be heard from around the station, engineering collectively sighs.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:34 pm #32111

All Assistants spawn on the Gulag with a randomly set point sentence.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:16 pm #32137

Antonkr wrote:There
Is
No
Reason
For
Assistants
To
Exist

He's got a point

Scott · Post by **Scott** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:22 pm #32140

Maybe the fact that Sybil gets a shit load of players and there are not enough job slots for all.

QuartzCrystal · Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:23 pm

Assistants exist to not over crowd work spaces and to accommodate players when we get to 90+ people on the server.

I would however support disallowing assistants from being antagonists.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:29 pm #32144

QuartzCrystal wrote:I would however support disallowing assistants from being antagonists.

Do you want people to trust assistants just as much as security? I disapprove of outright making assistants a protected role.

QuartzCrystal · Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:31 pm

Steelpoint wrote:
QuartzCrystal wrote:I would however support disallowing assistants from being antagonists.
Do you want people to trust assistants just as much as security? I disapprove of outright making assistants a protected role.

OK assistants should not be able to start as an antag (but can be rev'd culted). If people could actually trust assistants then maybe they could actually assist people and end up learning different things from more veteran players. It would also cut down the assistant population and encourage people to take up other roles.

A4Brogan · Post by **A4Brogan** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:37 pm #32148

Hahahahaha No.

Assistants allow those of us with skill three levels of entertainment and utility:

1. Free-Agent Assignments:
This category is small things that would be missed by the other ranks; Things like dragging crates to Cargo to bolster the stock of supplies, Reporting Maintenance Hull Breaches and Anomalies, and Pest Control (Notice how Diana roams about with a spear sometimes?).

2. New Player Assistance
*Gasp!* ACTUALLY HELPING PEOPLE!? BULLSHIT!
Wait, this is actually a good thing, Hear me out. It makes sense that professionals would be encouraged by Nanotrasen to take "Mentoring" days, where they all are paid to mill about helping the greener employees on other stations. This fits gameplay and lore fields, as those employees who work on one station may go to others where new workers are trained, similar to how experienced doctors will go to learning hospitals to mentor the scrubs.

3. Shenanigans and Amusing Background Events
This is where the grey-tiding is a problem. Although we have given Newbies plenty of odd jobs to do, some insist on doing shenanigans, when they have no idea what kind of shenanigans are acceptable to those who are actually playing. Good shenanigans can be:
pulling small pranks on a certain group (my personal favorite is to make a deal with cargo, all the crates I find, if I can get some wrapping paper so I can mail a locker full of mice to the chef!)
Starting "Frat House Games" (Such as one our local college plays with a really stinky sock, and the objective is to have the shortest time with it in your possession, mostly by stuffing it down another players clothing and yelling "STANK BALL".)
To the more creative things, like maximizing the maintainence hall and making a Super Secret Procession of the Association of Assistance CommitteE (SSPAACE).

We need to be harsher on the shitlers, while encouraging more productive and creative gimmicks for those unlucky to get a spot. I feel this would be more appropriate for the assistant title, and make newer players more likely to rope others in.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:52 pm #32152

Then remove/reduce assistant antag if they're all so for new players and free-roaming.

Because assistant is totally about helping others and shenanigans, right?

Slot limit is bullshit, we could lock assistant unless all slots are filled, but that's not why people want assistants.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:03 pm #32157

Name me the last time assitants have been morr so helpful to the station then being shit.

New players can easily play cargo and medbay.

Departments can be expanded to allow for more slots (see bays new medbay)

Assistants are meant to assist

They havent done this in a while

Please Remove.

Apsis · Post by **Apsis** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:05 pm #32158

You can't remove assistants until you increase the job threshold. We get 95 players now, get with it.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:06 pm #32159

Like I said departments can be expanded to allow more job slots.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:07 pm #32160

Lo6a4evskiy wrote:we could lock assistant unless all slots are filled

In theory

Apsis · Post by **Apsis** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:11 pm #32164

Antonkr wrote:Like I said departments can be expanded to allow more job slots.

We'd also need a bigger map, and more supplies to go with a change like this.

Post by **MisterPerson** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:12 pm #32166

Could also flat out cap the number of people who can join a round. Do we want 90 people on one server or 50 on one and 40 on the other?

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:14 pm #32167

That too.
We could also whitelist new players to have assistant for a few days enabled (like a reverse age ban) and other players if need be.

Apsis · Post by **Apsis** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:15 pm #32168

MisterPerson wrote:Could also flat out cap the number of people who can join a round. Do we want 90 people on one server or 50 on one and 40 on the other?

Unless the cap didn't count observing people, I wouldn't like this. Not everyone in the server is playing.

A4Brogan · Post by **A4Brogan** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:40 pm #32172

I agree on the player count side. We need to either make a sybil2, or stop running Ministation on Basil.

QuartzCrystal · Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:44 pm

A4Brogan wrote:I agree on the player count side. We need to either make a sybil2, or stop running Ministation on Basil.

Ministation is being run because no one plays on Basil.

Remie Richards · Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:44 pm

MisterPerson wrote:Could also flat out cap the number of people who can join a round. Do we want 90 people on one server or 50 on one and 40 on the other?

Last nights numbers are a brilliant example of why capping is probably the best bet.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:20 pm #32185

This game has some mechanics that don't scale well to populations of 70+, but it sure would be interesting to try. Have a big station divided between two AIs and divide duties between them, expand departmental sec posts so that not all law enforcement activity has to be centered at the main sec wing, add a tram line or something for quick transport around the station, that sort of thing. This is ultimately a social game, and a larger population on one server opens new possibilities of interaction.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:48 pm #32206

MisterPerson wrote:Could also flat out cap the number of people who can join a round. Do we want 90 people on one server or 50 on one and 40 on the other?

I agree with this. We have two servers for a reason.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:06 pm #32209

The following jobs regularly interact with assistants and thus suffer by removing them:

The Entire Security Team including and especially the Detective
The Entire Medical Team
The Bartender
The Chef
The Clown
The Mime
The Robotocists
The HoP
The Lawyers

There is nothing wrong with wanting to be in a round but not have a job that requires any sort of hard and fast expectations. I want to waltz in, see what the crisis of the day is, then make up my mind if I actually want to do anything that's going to eat a large time commitment or if I just want to dick around or idle.

ThatSlyFox wrote:I agree with this. We have two servers for a reason.

The reason was because it used to be that the game lagged like a motherfucker with too many players, but code improvements and better servers on SoS's end means that even at 90 players that's not really true anymore.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:18 pm #32212

We still have no need for 40 something assistants. The map needs to be made bigger to allow for more job slots or we do something crazy like having two stations on one server (would be so awesome but so laggy).

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:48 pm #32219

Sadly, this will accomplish nothing. You can see it with people who have assistantbans: they continue to tide, it's just yellowtide or lawyertide or doctortide rather than gray tide. Until they are all permabanned (not just assistantbanned) or reformed (hahahahahahaha), at least assistant serves as a way to prevent them from taking up real job slots.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:58 pm #32221

Assistants are the filter job. They allow people who have no intention of doing their job to pick a role with no responsibilities or expectations. The "Greytide" is a player issue, not the job itself. People who usually play Assistant to fuck around will just pick another low-spec job if Assistant is removed. It would solve nothing and just cause shit players who neglect their job to be far more common.

I hate Greytiding too, but if you think stopping people playing as Assistants will stop the "Greytide" then you are a fucking idiot.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:18 pm #32237

this is the worst thread of the year 10/10 anton

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:54 pm #32260

Alex Crimson wrote:Assistants are the filter job. They allow people who have no intention of doing their job to pick a role with no responsibilities or expectations. The "Greytide" is a player issue, not the job itself. People who usually play Assistant to fuck around will just pick another low-spec job if Assistant is removed. It would solve nothing and just cause shit players who neglect their job to be far more common.

I hate Greytiding too, but if you think stopping people playing as Assistants will stop the "Greytide" then you are a fucking idiot.

Greytiding isn't really the main intent of the proposal, but rather to give everyone responsibility and encourage them to play actual jobs so there isn't situations where there is 40 assistants, no heads of staff, one md and one sec officer.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:20 pm #32275

I got shot down for this last time, but we could force assistants to actually listen to people.

"As an assistant, you take orders from absolutely everyone."

Or how about a reverse lock system from the way we restrict head and silicon roles, AKA players can only be assistants for the first few days/weeks of their play time.

That said, I use assistant for a lot more than greytiding.

Gun Hog · Post by **Gun Hog** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:01 pm #32283

How to encourage people to fill other jobs before going to assistant:
- Remove their maintenance access. (It is a config option,so there no new code required.)
- Spawn them in areas that do not give them immediate access to tools and improvised weaponry.
- Possibly add to their round-start text that it is recommended for them to see the HoP for a new assignment.

Usually, half the assistants I see in a round have a pair of yellow gloves and a tool-belt. Making it harder for them to get tools and barring them from maintenance would shred the appeal the role provides. However, doing this has a serious risk of increasing boredom unfairly for players that join the round late or have bad luck in the round-start job selection. Attempting to solve the assistant issue in an harsh manner could result in driving players away from the server completely.

Antimattercarp · Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:41 pm

Gun Hog wrote:Attempting to solve the assistant issue in an harsh manner could result in driving players away from the server completely.

You mean, people would actually play on art and basil then?!

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:47 pm #32295

Gun Hog wrote:Attempting to solve the assistant issue in an harsh manner could result in driving players away from the server completely.

We have up to ninety people on Sybil, though. We can afford a few losses of terrible people.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:26 am #32306

Cipher3 wrote:
Gun Hog wrote:Attempting to solve the assistant issue in an harsh manner could result in driving players away from the server completely.
We have up to ninety people on Sybil, though. We can afford a few losses of terrible people.

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:45 am #32317

I'm making a promise. If assistants are removed, I will leave the server and ask to get myself put on the blacklist so I can never come back.

callanrockslol · Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:29 am

deathhoof wrote:I'm making a promise. If assistants are removed, I will leave the server and ask to get myself put on the blacklist so I can never come back.

Why don't you just leave now?

Also we had this thread last year, and the year before, and the year before that.

Every single time it was people making all these suggestions like capping the players or adding a load balancer to force people onto the other server.

Here's the thing folks, this is peak US times only, its much more dead during the rest of the day, planning a huge map for this or putting caps on the server will just piss people off by forcing them to wander around a large empty station.

Make the other server run box and some people will go over, but it wont massively change the numbers who use Sibyl, if you give it a bit it dies back down and the second server completely dies again.

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:32 am #32330

Why don't you just leave now?

that's not how a protest works.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:46 am #32334

The second server will never pick up. People see that there are no players on it, so they avoid it. If you want to attract people to Basil, then turn it to Sandbox mode when there are less than 10 players or something.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:58 am #32339

deathhoof wrote:I'm making a promise. If assistants are removed, I will leave the server and ask to get myself put on the blacklist so I can never come back.

Okay, have fun! See ya!

Fragnostic · Post by **Fragnostic** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:04 am #32342

suggest roles to do besides greytide or vandalize, by giving them tools and letting them figure out what to do with them. Maybe with little factions that only some assistants start out with. Maybe they all have greyjumpsuits, but the differences are in the tools and subtle differences.

Paramedic:blue armband to the original grey jumpsuit, start with basic medkit, latex gloves, and analyzer
Electrician: yellow armband, start with insulated gloves and an electrical toolbox
Mall op/rentacop/rookie: red armband, red cap, jackboots, security belt with only seclude, pepper spray, and white cable cuffs
Gardener: start with apron, bandana, leather gloves
Waiter/butler: assistant dress uniform, bottle of wine, top hat, monocle
Firefighter: Fire helmet, extinguisher, water grenades, gasmask, but no fire suit

Saying that they answer to absolutely everyone creates contempt for, surprise, absolutely everyone. Maybe they should be visitors? They are coming to see what it's like to work at the Space Station 13 facility, right?

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:06 am #32343

Im serious. No matter how cool i think climbing tables and gang mode is, these features would never make up for something as vile as removing assistant. I am more than willing to sacrafice being on a server with a decent coderbase and fun antag rules for having assistants.
Assistants > any perk the server could ever provide.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:20 am #32350

deathhoof wrote:Im serious. No matter how cool i think climbing tables and gang mode is, these features would never make up for something as vile as removing assistant. I am more than willing to sacrafice being on a server with a decent coderbase and fun antag rules for having assistants.
Assistants > any perk the server could ever provide.

Why, exactly, are assistants so good?
What, exactly, do assistants do that other jobs don't?