Public Ban Discussion

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:52 am #31958

This is the most appropriate board I could find to make this thread in, and to me it is indeed a policy issue, so here it is:
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
It has come to my attention that remarks on other's bans on this forum are being censored.
How are you admins going to know if you are making the right decisions if the public cannot speak their mind?
(Nobody is going to post a serious negative feedback in the boards made for that, because believe it or not admin metagrundges can happen)
Only allowing admins to have a say in bans is despotism.
I say make it possible for users to intervene with admin politics and put some democracy all up in this bitch.

Plus sides of users intervening in others bans:
-learn what the community actually wants
-smite the power-hungry authoritarians!
-more forum activity
-less angry banned people
-fun discussion

Cons(?):
-opinions you might dislike

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:55 am #31961

No not really stop making threads like this.

I admit I was wrong in my appeal thread if this is what this is about, I thought aran was buttmad because he has a history of bad kneejerk retarded bans but I wasn't aware saying ayy lmao had a sweeping instant ban policy on it and the guy with the ayy lmao name was a clown so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

CreationPro · Post by **CreationPro** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:56 am #31962

We are commies and pinkies, fuck off.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:58 am #31964

PLAYING IS A PRIVILEGE!!!!!!!1

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:00 am #31966

>make a thread about empowering the masses
>get this reply:

CreationPro wrote:We are commies and pinkies, fuck off.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:02 am #31967

I was one of the main proponents to make ban appeal threads and ban request threads involved-and-admin-only and trust me if you saw the old FNR forum you'd know why

It has nothing to do with censorship of valid points or discussions around bans, because they were few and far between.

There's mediums for discussing bans available, even.

Turn a bad ban into an admin complaint (if the ban was bad because the admin was bad) or a policy discussion (everyone can participate in these). Shitting up appeals and ban requests to discuss rules and shit isn't really a good thing, appeals and requests are where you get to the bottom of whether someone broke the rules or not; not whether or not the rules or the admin is shit.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:03 am #31968

paprika wrote:No not really stop making threads like this.

I admit I was wrong in my appeal thread if this is what this is about, I thought aran was buttmad because he has a history of bad kneejerk retarded bans but I wasn't aware saying ayy lmao had a sweeping instant ban policy on it and the guy with the ayy lmao name was a clown so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

"ayy lmao" has always been banned under the same OOC-in-IC policy that prevents people from saying "lol" and ":D" in chat

to be specific the "ayy" is not the problem so much as the "lmao"

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:05 am #31970

Well OP is saying people are being censored or something

CreationPro · Post by **CreationPro** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:34 am #31976

Pretty much what pap said: we used to have three ways: at first, anyone could go around posting their supa important opinion. Then we separated the threads into involved and non-involved, and then there's the system we had now. In short, "democracy" does not work well.

The first two ways made it so nobody wanted to touch appeals/requests/complaints with a fishing pole, now we at least get things done somewhat efficiently. If you really want to throw your opinion around, feel free to post it on oranges' imageboard: singulo.io . Many admins go there as well.

Arete · Post by **Arete** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:43 am #31979

Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of badmins, where every spaceman is enemy to every spaceman, the same consequent to the time wherein spacemen live without other shitcurity than what their own ping and their own robustness shall furnish them withal. In such condition there is no place for roleplaying... no knowledge of the workings of telescience; no account of space law; no mining; no erotic literature; no events; and which is worst of all, continual griefing, and danger of violent murderboners; and the time until the shuttle is called, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

By art is created that great Leviathan called moderators, or adminbus, which is but an artificial spaceman; though of greater robustness and e-penis than the natural, for whose metafriending and ban appealing it was intended; and in which, the badminnery is an artificial spooky ghost, as giving life and greentext to the whole body.

mrpain · Post by **mrpain** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 1:57 am #31988

Shitposting on Singulo is really fun. You should try it sometime.

CreationPro · Post by **CreationPro** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:06 am #31990

Arete wrote:Whatsoever therefore is consequent to a time of badmins, where every spaceman is enemy to every spaceman, the same consequent to the time wherein spacemen live without other shitcurity than what their own ping and their own robustness shall furnish them withal. In such condition there is no place for roleplaying... no knowledge of the workings of telescience; no account of space law; no mining; no erotic literature; no events; and which is worst of all, continual griefing, and danger of violent murderboners; and the time until the shuttle is called, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.

By art is created that great Leviathan called moderators, or adminbus, which is but an artificial spaceman; though of greater robustness and e-penis than the natural, for whose metafriending and ban appealing it was intended; and in which, the badminnery is an artificial spooky ghost, as giving life and greentext to the whole body.

Give that man a pussy.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:14 am #31992

They say there is a location, where you can speak your mind freely and fear not unholy retribution from the powermins. Unless you're bluespace (lel)

I have searched many years for this place and I have yet to find it.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:36 am #31997

oranges wrote:They say there is a location, where you can speak your mind freely and fear not unholy retribution from the powermins. Unless you're bluespace (lel)

I have searched many years for this place and I have yet to find it.

They say there is a man, who endlessly touts his little site...

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:45 am #32001

FNR ran like a fucking machine when I was ruling it with an iron fist.

But really just having some guidelines so that people knew how to phrase what they wanted to say to kept things constructive while allowing people who weren't directly involved to weigh in.

If you had something to say about someone that was related anecdotal experience it was allowed and encouraged. "This guy did the exact same thing to me before." is a lot more relevant than "This player is a faggot."

If you could quote something from the rules that was relevant that was being overlooked was also great. It potentially keeps over-zealous admins in check. Even something like "Hey I have been doing this for ages and never got bwoinked" is alright.

The problem with discussion in FNR is that it can very quickly blossom into a debate about policy or just plain shitslinging at the admins or players involved, complete with dunk image macros and stupid shit. I know how much you guys love making fun of eachother but when you get pulled over for speeding the cops don't call up everyone you ever had an argument with and invite them to come stand around your car in a circle and laugh at you while you get your ticket. Similarly, it wasn't the time to start debating whether the speed limit should be raised or not. If it sparked a discussion that was fine, but you had to take it to another thread.

I can't remember exactly how the FNR guidelines were at the time but that was prettymuch how it went and people very quickly caught on to the difference between FNR threads and Policy Discussion threads, as well as admin feedback/complaints. I had to warn quite a few people but usually only once, and I only ever banned 2-3 people from the subforum, most of which I then talked to about it and unbanned.

Plus sides of users intervening in others bans:
-learn what the community actually wants
-smite the power-hungry authoritarians!
-more forum activity
-less angry banned people
-fun discussion

If people follow the posting guidelines you get all that. Except for fun discussion? FNR isn't supposed to be fun, it just sometimes happen when people get ridiculous in their appeals or requests.

Cipher3 wrote:
oranges wrote:They say there is a location, where you can speak your mind freely and fear not unholy retribution from the powermins. Unless you're bluespace (lel)

I have searched many years for this place and I have yet to find it.
They say there is a man, who endlessly touts his little site...

Hey man, it's all he's got.

Alex Crimson · Post by **Alex Crimson** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:23 am #32005

Eh im not a big fan of the current FNR rules either. They were added because users would derail and clutter appeals and ban requests with pointless debates. Whilst its true that some topics got derailed, there were also examples of people contributing to the discussion without being directly involved. I think the current rules are a little too strict, but its better than having the topics ruined by pointless posts.

Id still like a new Steno subforum though. It was a nice place to discuss bans and point out things the admins failed to say, which tends to happen sometimes.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:38 am #32018

Most of the things I want to post in ban appeal threads are "This is a terrible ban, since when did we ban for IC issues?", or maybe "Bryce Pax has a long and prolific history of greytiding, and perhaps an assistant permaban is in order rather than a global ban. He's usually pretty alright when he's not an assistant." - Most constructive comments can be PM'd to their intended recipient. Relevant precidents or questionable policy goes here in PD. Shitposting goes on Singulo.

Post by **Jordie0608** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:23 am #32045

I'd like to point out that the decision to not have a Stenography board or allowance for anyone to post in FNR threads was not made by In-Game Administration, but by the Forum Administration after consultation with the In-Game Administration's interests. I'd also like to point out this discussion has already taken place and that a ruling was outlined.

callanrockslol · Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:47 am

Also I would like to point out that deathhoof is making this thread because he got bant and wants to sockpuppet his way out of it

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:07 am #32065

callanrockslol wrote:Also I would like to point out that deathhoof is making this thread because he got bant and wants to sockpuppet his way out of it

Not even a shitty ban, either. Spraying people with welding fuel 4nr then crying when he gets banned for grief. Plus his name's deathhoof, like he's some fifteen year old edgelord brony.

edit: the cancer is strong with this one
>halfchan steamgroup, le leejun xDD
>pro TF2
>death420hoof
>220 hours in unmodded skyrim

how pleb can you be

deathhoof · Post by **deathhoof** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:32 pm #32088

While I did get banned recently, that only served to force me to make this account. I made my posts here based on observations made prior to having this account. I'd appreciate you refrain from looking at all my steam hours (seriously why would you do this?). Also, I don't play unmodded skyrim, i have a myriad of survival mods for it, most of which are from nexus. The name deathhoof is indeed an edgelord brony name, but its from a differant era. I only use it for nastalgic reasons now. Also, so what if I'm still in the halfchan group? Just because halfchan is kill, doesnt mean all of halfchan's old lurkers are kill.
Also its a shame I even had to make this post. For a bunch of manchildren you sure do gossip like teenage girls.

ABearInTheWoods · Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:11 pm

Actually i like this idea, Hold on and i'll set something up.

>=)

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:10 pm #32124

Psyentific wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:Also I would like to point out that deathhoof is making this thread because he got bant and wants to sockpuppet his way out of it
Not even a shitty ban, either. Spraying people with welding fuel 4nr then crying when he gets banned for grief. Plus his name's deathhoof, like he's some fifteen year old edgelord brony.

edit: the cancer is strong with this one
>halfchan steamgroup, le leejun xDD
>pro TF2
>death420hoof
>220 hours in unmodded skyrim

how pleb can you be

Didn't you JUST use some ponyfucker reaction image? Why the fuck are you digging into people's profiles like this?

Is there less oxygen in Canada or are you just fucking retarded?

Ad-hominem bullshit in a policy thread just stop.

peoplearestrange · Mon Sep 29, 2014 4:42 pm

In an attempt to answer the OP and pretend i'm less of a douche:

The reason we don't have "stenography" in FNR threads is to keep them clear and simple so they can be dealt with easily. Even with the rules, 90% of posts (as was on the other forum) not posted by the OP or an admin, are shit posts or wild speculation (probably based on metagrudges etc).

Here's some examples of what gets deleted, names removed of course:

"I guess you can roleplay as a banned loser then"

"i hate this man and he is not a good {PERSON} and is a douchebag and he should become nicer and less of a stick in the sand shitler
0/10"

"Hold my beer, I'm going in"

"fuck off and stay fucked off"

They're the more unsubtle ones, a lot tend to be really passive aggressive, or someone taking upon themselves to "correct" and "inform".
It really gets out of hand pretty quickly when anyone has the right to post in every thread. Frankly because some people just love to stick their noses in.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:12 pm #32180

peoplearestrange wrote:
"I guess you can roleplay as a banned loser then"

lost my shit

Munchlax · Post by **Munchlax** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:19 pm #32184

Psyentific wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:Also I would like to point out that deathhoof is making this thread because he got bant and wants to sockpuppet his way out of it
Not even a shitty ban, either. Spraying people with welding fuel 4nr then crying when he gets banned for grief. Plus his name's deathhoof, like he's some fifteen year old edgelord brony.

edit: the cancer is strong with this one
>halfchan steamgroup, le leejun xDD
>pro TF2
>death420hoof
>220 hours in unmodded skyrim

how pleb can you be

LOL your cool

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:07 pm #32210

An0n3 wrote:
Psyentific wrote:
callanrockslol wrote:Also I would like to point out that deathhoof is making this thread because he got bant and wants to sockpuppet his way out of it
Not even a shitty ban, either. Spraying people with welding fuel 4nr then crying when he gets banned for grief. Plus his name's deathhoof, like he's some fifteen year old edgelord brony.

edit: the cancer is strong with this one
>halfchan steamgroup, le leejun xDD
>pro TF2
>death420hoof
>220 hours in unmodded skyrim

how pleb can you be
Didn't you JUST use some ponyfucker reaction image? Why the fuck are you digging into people's profiles like this?

Is there less oxygen in Canada or are you just fucking retarded?

Ad-hominem bullshit in a policy thread just stop.

This entire thread is about allowing ad-hominem bullshit in FNR threads. That's pretty much the goal of 'opening it up to smiting the tyrannical badmins' or whatever bullshit is being spouted here.

If FNR was opened up, this is the kind of post that would be in death420hoof's ban appeal.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:00 pm #32224

raven do you even play /tg/ anymore i miss you

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:38 pm #32291

I've got shitty dish internet. I play every now and again between 2 AM and 8 AM, but I just got a couple job interviews so I might be able to get something better soon enough and play at reasonable hours for once.

It says something to my addiction that I'm willing to play security with 1 to 2 seconds of lag. It says something to my robust when I'm still able to dunk people.

I don't know what characters you play anymore anyways, though.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 12:22 am #32304

Raven776 wrote: This entire thread is about allowing ad-hominem bullshit in FNR threads. That's pretty much the goal of 'opening it up to smiting the tyrannical badmins' or whatever bullshit is being spouted here.

If FNR was opened up, this is the kind of post that would be in death420hoof's ban appeal.

We already had this discussion, so nothing will come of this thread. Since nothing will come of this discussion, it's okay to shitpost.
Since this is a discussion about steno in FNR, shitposting serves as an example of what happens if we allow it.
It's not shitposting if I'm being vaguely constructive.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:50 am #32335

I was agreeing with you on that. Your comment was entirely constructive. Basically all of the off topic posts in this thread are satire if you read them with that in mind.

captain sawrge · Tue Sep 30, 2014 2:58 am

Psyentific is so powerfully autistic it's impressive hes aloud to be alive

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:19 am #32363

>aloud

FUCK YOU SAWRGE YOU TRICKED ME INTO BEING AUTISTIC

Raven776 wrote:I don't know what characters you play anymore anyways, though.

It's literally in my signature

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:13 am #32384

captain sawrge wrote:Psyentific is so powerfully autistic it's impressive hes aloud to be alive

I'll have you know I'm one of the least autistic people I know.

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:15 am #32385

paprika wrote:
Raven776 wrote:I don't know what characters you play anymore anyways, though.
It's literally in my signature

I am not a smart person.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:18 am #32387

Your mom's not a smart person

peoplearestrange · Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:54 am

captain sawrge wrote:Psyentific is so powerfully autistic it's impressive hes aloud to be alive

Raven776 wrote:Basically all of the off topic posts in this thread are satire if you read them with that in mind.

Just saying...

Munchlax · Post by **Munchlax** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 1:13 pm #32434

''hurdur i was only acting to be retarded'' doesnt cut it.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:40 pm #32476

geilebeer wrote:''hurdur i was only acting to be retarded'' doesnt cut it.

Look man, if I can't shitpost in a discussion over whether or not to allow shitposting in FNR...

Raven776 · Post by **Raven776** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:45 pm #32477

Then what?

callanrockslol · Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:45 am

Then he'll leave and the server will get ever so slightly better.

Post by **MisterPerson** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:51 am #32587

This thread is an active representation of why Stenography was awful and isn't coming back.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:57 am #32629

>implying psyentific plays

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 10:16 am #32641

paprika wrote:>implying psyentific plays

Why would I play SS13 when I could be playing STALKER?

Spoiler:

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:44 pm #32709

The worst of steno is still here, uninvolved admins shitpost constantly in FNR, now it's just people with special snowflake colored names shitposting.

cedarbridge · Post by **cedarbridge** » Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:48 pm #32712

Psyentific wrote:
paprika wrote:>implying psyentific plays
Why would I play SS13 when I could be playing STALKER?

Spoiler:
because king bloodsucker

You played SS13 last week shut up.

peoplearestrange · Wed Oct 01, 2014 9:27 pm

damiac wrote:The worst of steno is still here, uninvolved admins shitpost constantly in FNR, now it's just people with special snowflake colored names shitposting.

Admins fall under the same rules. If they shit post, report it and It'll be removed. The forum admins are pretty separate to the game admins which kinda helps to avoid circle jerk situations, mostly.

damiac · Post by **damiac** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 5:53 pm #32984

Hmm, well I'll give it a try next time I see it. Thanks for the tip.

Man though... I miss steno, now when I read an FNR thread, and an admin does/says something that makes no sense, I can't call them on it, unless it's so horrific that it deserves a comment in admin feedback. But in admin feedback, no discussion can be had about the specific ban...

I feel like some pretty worthwhile policy discussions came out of it, like the delicious fruits fertilized by all the nutrient rich shitposts. Plus if it weren't for Steno I would never have had the chance to be banned by Brotemis!

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 6:56 pm #33007

damiac wrote: I feel like some pretty worthwhile policy discussions came out of it, like the delicious fruits fertilized by all the nutrient rich shitposts.

What a great quote.

Timbrewolf · Post by **Timbrewolf** » Thu Oct 02, 2014 8:50 pm #33025

damiac wrote:I feel like some pretty worthwhile policy discussions came out of it, like the delicious fruits fertilized by all the nutrient rich shitposts. Plus if it weren't for Steno I would never have had the chance to be banned by Brotemis!

Raising policy discussions outside of the context of a ban allows people to discuss a topic without having to consider how it affects a single person, but the general server as a whole. It also stymies any person wanting to overturn a decision just to make the decision maker look bad, or uphold a decision just to make the rule-breaker suffer.

If you see a ban and you think the policy behind it is misguided, odds are there is probably already an appropriate conversation happening in the Policy subforum, or you can just start your own.