Restrict Toxins a bit more.

[cocothegogo]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Toxins should just be removed honestly.

It is a purely grief oriented department and its function is no longer as urgent since we moved to lavaland.

is this bait?

why dont we just remove everything fun already

[D&B]

Toxins should just be removed honestly.

It is a purely grief oriented department and its function is no longer as urgent since we moved to lavaland.

is this bait?

why dont we just remove everything fun already

What's fun about it?

[ShadowDimentio]

Toxins should just be removed honestly.

It is a purely grief oriented department and its function is no longer as urgent since we moved to lavaland.

is this bait?

why dont we just remove everything fun already

What's fun about it?

Environmental damage is fun. Substantially more fun than mindless murderbone.

[kevinz000]

restrict this thread a little more.

[Qbmax32]

Shit, I like making bombs. Watching the station go up in flames is fucking quality, and if I'm a nonantag and doing toxins, I deliver (or at least try) to get my bombs to mining. I think that reducing the amount of starter TTVs, to say one or two would be a good change as on more then one occasion, I've seen the station reduced to dust because of the "hurr durr 6 maxcap booms 15 minutes into the round" meme. While I don't think it should be removed, it should definitely get some sort of nerf

[tacolizard]

I think the people in this thread might be interested in this PR I made: https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/29107

It adds a machine that lets RnD instantly send mining gear and bombs to the mining base. Best part, it's roundstart mapped into RnD.

I would really appreciate if you guys could come over and upvote it and give your opinions, because a lot of coders (who don't play) are receiving it pretty negatively.

[Cobby]

it's worse than RND. At least RND requires mining before you're able to finish reading the wiki guide and even then doesn't normally level the station.

[ShadowDimentio]

it's worse than RND. At least RND requires mining before you're able to finish reading the wiki guide and even then doesn't normally level the station.

Bombs are infinitely less dangerous than R&D. Bombs, you get 6 holes punched into the station but requires setup unless you're willing to kill yourself blowing up, R&D you can make guns, gear, AND bombs with more effort.

If you're worried someone is gonna bomb the station, keep a tab on who's using toxins, and if he starts acting suspiciously arrest and take his bombs.

[Jzoid]

it's worse than RND. At least RND requires mining before you're able to finish reading the wiki guide and even then doesn't normally level the station.

Bombs are infinitely less dangerous than R&D. Bombs, you get 6 holes punched into the station but requires setup unless you're willing to kill yourself blowing up, R&D you can make guns, gear, AND bombs with more effort.

If you're worried someone is gonna bomb the station, keep a tab on who's using toxins, and if he starts acting suspiciously arrest and take his bombs.

RnD the most OP and unique thing I'd say you can get from it is the X-Ray gun, which is never used outside of Blob.
X-Ray gun requires a ton of mining and research to get.
X-Ray gun is counter able
X-Ray gun isn't round start
X-Ray gun also requires firing pins to use.

Maxcaps, used 1/3 Traitor rounds.
Doesn't require any mining or trivial research.
Because 90% of the time they're hidden in lockers or bags, they're not really counterable because the only moment you notice it is the moment it goes off.
Maxcap has almost everything laid out already. Takes roughly five minutes to make your first.
Maxcap doesn't require a safety item only held by RD and Security.
Maxcap can puncture holes in the armoury, disabling security. In escape, disabling well escape. In the engineering place. In med bay. An xray gun can't do that.


RnD benefits the whole station (also it is a RESEARCH station not a BLOW SHIT UP Station).
Maxcap benefits no one but the person who wants to blow everything up.
Don't even say "Oh they benefit miners!" I've been on a mining streak for the past couple days and not once have I got or been offered a maxcap.

[kevinz000]

"an x-ray gun can't do that"
LMAO

[D&B]

>XRay guns can make a 15x15 hole on shot and open said area to space while simultaneously gibbing or destroying everything inside


IMUHJEEN MUH SHOCK

[ShadowDimentio]

>The best thing R&D can make is an xlaser
>The xlaser is never made because it takes a lot of work
>???
>CHECKMATE, BOMBS, YOU'RE OP

Just make an aegun you idiot

[Cobby]

>The best thing R&D can make is an xlaser
>The xlaser is never made because it takes a lot of work
>???
>CHECKMATE, BOMBS, YOU'RE OP

Just make an aegun you idiot

Even the advance egun requires mining though, bombs can be made 5 minutes into the round with no outside assistance. In fact, much of the previous R&D arguments can now be used for toxins, such as little [see: actually 0] player interaction needed to make the most efficient bombs and all you have to do is read a guide and you get the best thing that department has to offer.

I haven't used the precision rifle or whatever so that may be pretty gud but it still just doesn't beat the instant ability to make upto 6 department removers 5-10 minutes into the round. God forbid you know how to make good canister bombs.

[ShadowDimentio]

There's still a fairly large amount of setup in making/deploying bombs in a way that won't have sec instantly go aggro on you that balances it out.

[Jzoid]

>The best thing R&D can make is an xlaser
>The xlaser is never made because it takes a lot of work
>???
>CHECKMATE, BOMBS, YOU'RE OP

Just make an aegun you idiot

Well the whole reason why this thread is made is due to the over-use of toxins and maxcaps, so talking about how much an item is used in this thread is pretty relevant.
And good job completely ignoring the other points too.

Advanced Egun? It's literally a taser and a lethal mixed together: See HoS's gun.

[FantasticFwoosh]

>The best thing R&D can make is an xlaser
>The xlaser is never made because it takes a lot of work
>???
>CHECKMATE, BOMBS, YOU'RE OP

Just make an aegun you idiot

Even the advance egun requires mining though, bombs can be made 5 minutes into the round with no outside assistance. In fact, much of the previous R&D arguments can now be used for toxins, such as little [see: actually 0] player interaction needed to make the most efficient bombs and all you have to do is read a guide and you get the best thing that department has to offer.

I haven't used the precision rifle or whatever so that may be pretty gud but it still just doesn't beat the instant ability to make upto 6 department removers 5-10 minutes into the round. God forbid you know how to make good canister bombs.

For a literal interpretation of that statement, taking a gatfruit seed from a seed vault back to the station (say about 10 mins if you're lucky) and cultivating it also takes about 8 to ten minutes for a harvest of 10 revolvers.

[kevinz000]

when i'm done fucking up rnd bombs will be even comparitively op because it'll be 5 minute maxcaps while rnd takes longer
wonder if there'll be a bounty for toxins rework if this problem stews long enough *evil laughter*

[FantasticFwoosh]

I didn't know that our github now has PCC (premium coded content) policy in which people only code specific features and ignore any amount of screaming on a issue until people open their wallets.

[kevinz000]

I didn't know that our github now has PCC (premium coded content) policy in which people only code specific features and ignore any amount of screaming on a issue until people open their wallets.

>fwoosh taking my shitposting as serious


also a toxins rework wouldn't even be as easy as a rnd rework because what's there to rework it's just cold + hot = high pressure = tank rupture = boom
there's nothing to rework unless you turn it from "lets mix gasses to blow shit up" to "lets mix reagents to blow shit up" but reagents aren't even bombcapped.

[Iatots]

Aren't Na+H2O capped at 100:100 and black powder at 300?

But toxins and, by extension, atmos could use some love.

[FantasticFwoosh]

I didn't know that our github now has PCC (premium coded content) policy in which people only code specific features and ignore any amount of screaming on a issue until people open their wallets.

>fwoosh taking my shitposting as serious


also a toxins rework wouldn't even be as easy as a rnd rework because what's there to rework it's just cold + hot = high pressure = tank rupture = boom
there's nothing to rework unless you turn it from "lets mix gasses to blow shit up" to "lets mix reagents to blow shit up" but reagents aren't even bombcapped.

*COUGH*

Do you really want me to drop some thread-names of actually creative toxin reworks / replacements. You obviously still want your thing we've determined to be too OP because its a powergamer wet dream to get easy bombs that destablise the station so badly and make it unihabitable. Engineers aren't going to clean it up and its never going to be the exact fidelity that can only be achieved in map maker for certain unique parts without immese effort and material gain. In which then it gets bombed again.

Isn't this also admission that the role has 0 depth and is about purely making the bombs then quitting if you're non-antag and therefore not liable without getting bwoinked to bomb anything. We still have incidents where people from toxins try to bomb blobs purely because its a resource they've made and is lying around in the lab. lowering it to 5 bombs is still 5 bombs, which when at the maximum explosion potential

> Inevitably bombing with toxins bombs is going to go round in a circle where its going to be eventually reduced to 2 or 3 bombs then removed because nobody agrees why we have or tolerate it anymore.

---

Of course i take the shitpost seriously, your a coder (and a maintainer elsewhere), its about as incriminating as a politician making a controversial off the record statement into a public microphone, then trying to wash it off a joke.

---

[kevinz000]

shitposting: welcome to the forums
"powergamers like me like it": also no i don't even like toxins i push for longer rounds why would i like something that ends a round with 5 minutes of effort?
coder: it's you're not your
removal: deep lore says plasma research station

as for politician/incriminating/whatever: it's 6 am i haven't slept i can hardly care.

[FantasticFwoosh]

I was not putting enough effort in i guess, tiredness creeping on me.

- Its a effective method, if you can simply hijack alone by blowing up escape and EVA suit storage for almost no TC purposefully to call a short round. Sit in maint with a syndie space suit, stetch & a toolbox to close up the doors & finish off survivors when the shuttle does arrive. Nothing is going to happen for the first 10 mins of shuttle block so you can sit on your laurels because you know for certain they are going to panic call as soon as possible = you win delicious, delicious greentext.



We deconstruct plasma with RnD, everyone knows the bomb method = deep lore irrelevant, there's actually nothing outside of upgraded welders, plasma cutters etc that even substitutes as plasma research, or even directly relying on plasma. The most advanced tech thing on the station that needs plasma tech is the portable chem, but that's just a smaller fixture of a chemical dispenser we already have.

[tacolizard]

I didn't know that our github now has PCC (premium coded content) policy in which people only code specific features and ignore any amount of screaming on a issue until people open their wallets.

>fwoosh taking my shitposting as serious


also a toxins rework wouldn't even be as easy as a rnd rework because what's there to rework it's just cold + hot = high pressure = tank rupture = boom
there's nothing to rework unless you turn it from "lets mix gasses to blow shit up" to "lets mix reagents to blow shit up" but reagents aren't even bombcapped.

*COUGH*

Do you really want me to drop some thread-names of actually creative toxin reworks / replacements. You obviously still want your thing we've determined to be too OP because its a powergamer wet dream to get easy bombs that destablise the station so badly and make it unihabitable. Engineers aren't going to clean it up and its never going to be the exact fidelity that can only be achieved in map maker for certain unique parts without immese effort and material gain. In which then it gets bombed again.

Isn't this also admission that the role has 0 depth and is about purely making the bombs then quitting if you're non-antag and therefore not liable without getting bwoinked to bomb anything. We still have incidents where people from toxins try to bomb blobs purely because its a resource they've made and is lying around in the lab. lowering it to 5 bombs is still 5 bombs, which when at the maximum explosion potential

> Inevitably bombing with toxins bombs is going to go round in a circle where its going to be eventually reduced to 2 or 3 bombs then removed because nobody agrees why we have or tolerate it anymore.

---

Of course i take the shitpost seriously, your a coder (and a maintainer elsewhere), its about as incriminating as a politician making a controversial off the record statement into a public microphone, then trying to wash it off a joke.

---

[Kyrah Abattoir]

It has been my opinion for a while that the gas heater/chillers need to be given the boot and replaced by proper alternatives.

* Heaters should ONLY be able to heat, thermal regulation is fine but only going "up" in temperature.
* Portable AC: Use a battery, can be wrenched on a canister port, will remove heat from its surrounding and transfer it into the gas in its builtin tank or the canister port. (stops working when the hot side hits ~4000kpa)
* Gas cooler: binary, transfers calories from the cool side to the hot side (stops working when the hot side hits ~4000kpa)