>conversion modes

danno · Post by **danno** » Wed May 24, 2017 11:43 pm #298548

>cult
>AI reports cult activity in science
>an officer arms up and murders the entire department
>not a single person killed was cult
>officer not at fault because AI reported it and they had no chaplain and there's precedent for just killing people because of that
>AI not at fault because it plausibly saw cult activity
>an entire department of innocent people doing nothing but their jobs killed and nothing to show for it
>can't ban anyone because it would absolutely be lifted
>can't remove conversion modes because a million little shitter players would cry
>conversion modes will continue to encourage TDM and shitty situations that fuck a trillion players out of having fun because it's not against the rules

hm

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Wed May 24, 2017 11:53 pm #298552

invalidate the valids
deflate the boners
keep the hordes at bay

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Thu May 25, 2017 1:50 am #298598

DemonFiren wrote:invalidate the valids
deflate the boners
keep the hordes at bay

Actually cracking down on people murdering when they could very well deconvert or murdering without proof of cult activity would be nice actually.

conversion modes are a bit too common to be honest.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu May 25, 2017 1:55 am #298604

Hey I was the officer.

We had no chaplain and securing them was just going to work against us in the long run. When we did get a chaplain later on we moved into deconversion and implantation but still had to put down some people here and there (like an implanted deconverted lawyer trying to save a fully armored narsian cultist.)

TheColdTurtle · Thu May 25, 2017 2:18 am

But... isnt that the lawyers job?

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:20 am #298618

Not if the captain deputized you lmao

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:23 am #298619

seize the power danno

calzilla1 · Post by **calzilla1** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:57 am #298630

Just let the cult win lmao

InsaneHyena · Post by **InsaneHyena** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:21 am #298680

Cult is fine, perfect, even. Stop hating on it.

Screemonster · Thu May 25, 2017 5:28 am

It's another "to stand a chance in a conversion mode you have to do things that would get you banned in any other mode" episode

ShadowDimentio · Thu May 25, 2017 5:46 am

>Search "cultists"
>Find nothing
>Kill everyone anyways

You should have been banned my dude, you only trigger ENDLESS SLAUGHTER when things are well and truly fucked and constructs and cultists are literally roaming the halls of the station.

Searching people is your most powerful tool as sec. If you search someone and they have any antag candy on them you're 100% clear to execute them on the spot, outside of that there's an extremely good chance you'll get bwoinked and unless you have a solid reason the admin will yell at you.

This is also why I fucking hate lings because you never have any mother fucking idea if you have one or not unless you literally catch them dead in the middle of giving someone the succ

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu May 25, 2017 9:05 am #298720

>No chappy
>Cult activity everywhere
>Miner base compromised
>Ai reported activity in science

>>>>>Somehow I'm expected to hold and search three scientists when doing so could give any of then time to run or (((stun))) paper me and put other officers in danger

Naw

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu May 25, 2017 9:10 am #298721

Aren't you the guy who's gotten himself secbanned more times than JLP?

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu May 25, 2017 9:23 am #298723

Dunno I haven't compared bans

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Thu May 25, 2017 10:18 am #298731

>Ask the AI to bolt them in separate rooms
>Search them one by one

>Arrest one
>Drag to brig and search
>Repeat with the others

>Drag beepsky with you
>Set everyone to arrest
>You can do this even if you are braindead

>Ask the borg to come with you and help
>Two can keep 3 cuffed if you bring a rolling chair or whatever

Bonus: Use a forensics scanner on the rune

It kinda feels like we are in post-modern SS13, as a traitor I could just say something like "all of sec is actually changelings who implanted themselves" so now the rest of the crew has probably cause to zerg them, actually obligated to, since the antags might kill them/get greentext.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Thu May 25, 2017 10:20 am #298732

>realize the borgs were converted to Ratvar

Kraso · Post by **Kraso** » Thu May 25, 2017 10:31 am #298733

D&B wrote:>No chappy
>Cult activity everywhere
>Miner base compromised
>Ai reported activity in science

>>>>>Somehow I'm expected to hold and search three scientists when doing so could give any of then time to run or (((stun))) paper me and put other officers in danger

Naw

>when you have so many stun-capable weapons you could make a servant of ratvar blush but you choose the lasergun option

>

DemonFiren wrote:Aren't you the guy who's gotten himself secbanned more times than JLP?

hmm...

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Thu May 25, 2017 10:34 am #298734

Steelpoint wrote:>realize the borgs were converted to Ratvar

Don't they have yellow eyes?

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Thu May 25, 2017 10:47 am #298737

leibniz wrote:
Steelpoint wrote:>realize the borgs were converted to Ratvar
Don't they have yellow eyes?

that's why ratvar borgs always keep their headlamps on

ratvar borgs should emit yellow light instead of white

Nilons · Post by **Nilons** » Thu May 25, 2017 11:04 am #298739

D&B wrote:>No chappy
>Cult activity everywhere
>Miner base compromised
>Ai reported activity in science

>>>>>Somehow I'm expected to hold and search three scientists when doing so could give any of then time to run or (((stun))) paper me and put other officers in danger

Naw

Did you search any of them before or after death? Or ask the AI to double check by waiting for them to do anything fishy

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu May 25, 2017 1:16 pm #298766

Nilons wrote:
D&B wrote:>No chappy
>Cult activity everywhere
>Miner base compromised
>Ai reported activity in science

>>>>>Somehow I'm expected to hold and search three scientists when doing so could give any of then time to run or (((stun))) paper me and put other officers in danger

Naw
Did you search any of them before or after death? Or ask the AI to double check by waiting for them to do anything fishy

I couldn't because high pop memes honestly. Cap and sec were busy trying to contain the cult, contain cargo, plan a charge against the mining base, and contain the wraiths and constructs that were being made. Plus I got told by the admins to wait in the brig so I had no way of getting to the bodies for a good while (and afterwards pressing matters had me securing the bridge because lmao recall cultists kept rushing.)

Even worse is sec thought it was a meme round of Ratvar vs Blood because one Borg was in histerics yelling about people trying to convert it after it was locked down.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:47 pm #298790

Cult in mining;
Planned assault on cargo.
Cult assault on medbay and stragglers in hallways.
Cult skirmishers almost kill two people.
Have to deal with these guys.
End up cancelling the cargo assault to attend to the brig.

Repukan needed to clone people;
Go to medbay to begin cloning.
Cult assassination attempt on captain.
Defensive manoeuvres kill the hitsquad, security cloning team separated.
Cult assault on brig in progress.
Have to redirect everyone to counterassault and relieve the brig siege.

???

Screamed at end of the round.

Can't do anything about it because literally not in control of the round.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:52 pm #298793

This is why conversion modes are fucking garbage. Repukan played hardball and survived the encounter, if he had played it nicer and any of them were actual cultists they would have prepared a huge fuck-you of whatever kind and killed him. This is literally the only way to play sec if you want to not die and it fucking sucks for everyone. Anyone who has ever said "git gud" at playing cult, this is what it looks like

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:57 pm #298794

or he could have just not suicide rushed into science when he assumed it was a cult hive forcing the position onto himself

ShadowDimentio · Thu May 25, 2017 3:13 pm

D&B wrote:>No chappy
>Cult activity everywhere
>Miner base compromised
>Ai reported activity in science

>>>>>Somehow I'm expected to hold and search three scientists when doing so could give any of then time to run or (((stun))) paper me and put other officers in danger

Naw

>Stun each boy one at a time
>Drag him in the sec sci room
>Search him
>If anyone tries to break in shoot them
>This is too advanced for you

Would sec ban/10

Like the "he could have paper'd me if I was nice" argument is fucking retarded, just don't let them get near you. Cultists have to be at point blank range to be a threat, you have a gun, fend them off.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:17 pm #298800

The only way to "win" a conversion mode as security is to go turbohitler. Random search everyone, execute cultists, if you see a scientist in a cult base or near one, tase him because he'll pull a meme paper and stun you. Cults aren't expected to hold back when fighting security, neither should security. If the mode is a "TDM," we should stop expecting one team to not hit as hard. If this is too hard to understand, read rule 10, which also applies to security players even moreso than regular crewmembers since they lose twice as often.

ShadowDimentio · Thu May 25, 2017 3:19 pm

I get that, but at the bare minimum if all he was facing just three possible hostiles separately and had full gear he should have given them a search just for peace of mind.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:24 pm #298804

Kel wrote:or he could have just not suicide rushed into science when he assumed it was a cult hive forcing the position onto himself

except that the cult only grows in power so if you leave them unchecked they will keep amassing constructs, weapons and new recruits and then you lose anyways

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:25 pm #298805

Wyzack wrote:
Kel wrote:or he could have just not suicide rushed into science when he assumed it was a cult hive forcing the position onto himself
except that the cult only grows in power so if you leave them unchecked they will keep amassing constructs, weapons and new recruits and then you lose anyways

you gain nothing by suiciding yourself into a cult base like an idiot

either you kill literally the entire cult, or you kill some of them, they take your weapons, sacrifice you and you join their ranks as a construct, and revive everyone you killed.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:30 pm #298806

BeeSting12 wrote:The only way to "win" a conversion mode as security is to go turbohitler. Random search everyone, execute cultists, if you see a scientist in a cult base or near one, tase him because he'll pull a meme paper and stun you. Cults aren't expected to hold back when fighting security, neither should security. If the mode is a "TDM," we should stop expecting one team to not hit as hard. If this is too hard to understand, read rule 10, which also applies to security players even moreso than regular crewmembers since they lose twice as often.

there is a difference between turbohitlering and just murdering everyone because they were in the vicinity of a unconfirmed cult report

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:37 pm #298810

If it were service or engineering cult I'd be willing to take chances and not go Rambo.

But this is science. So many nerfs to every department but science makes it a lose/lose situation.

make a bomb that deletes entire portions of the station, weapons that bypass walls, machines that bring you back to life after death, aliens and monsters under orders from their master, robots that have electronic control, and mechs that are neigh unstoppable.

You are stand with me or against me. There's no in between with the amount of power science has.
No chances are taken against science.

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:42 pm #298811

J_Madison wrote:If it were service or engineering cult I'd be willing to take chances and not go Rambo.

But this is science. So many nerfs to every department but science makes it a lose/lose situation.

make a bomb that deletes entire portions of the station, weapons that bypass walls, machines that bring you back to life after death, aliens and monsters under orders from their master, robots that have electronic control, and mechs that are neigh unstoppable.

You are stand with me or against me. There's no in between with the amount of power science has.
No chances are taken against science.

what kind of logic even is this? do you just wipe out the entire science population when one of them has an esword? how can an entire department be valid salads just because they are potentially powerful late in the round?

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:49 pm #298816

Kel wrote:
J_Madison wrote:If it were service or engineering cult I'd be willing to take chances and not go Rambo.

But this is science. So many nerfs to every department but science makes it a lose/lose situation.

make a bomb that deletes entire portions of the station, weapons that bypass walls, machines that bring you back to life after death, aliens and monsters under orders from their master, robots that have electronic control, and mechs that are neigh unstoppable.

You are stand with me or against me. There's no in between with the amount of power science has.
No chances are taken against science.
what kind of logic even is this? do you just wipe out the entire science population when one of them has an esword? how can an entire department be valid salads just because they are potentially powerful late in the round?

A single traitor means nothing, but a even a whiff of cult around the area may mean that the whole department is compromised. And if science is cult, you have already lost.

A solution would be to make science go boom at roundstart if it's cult, like sec in gang.

J_Madison · Post by **J_Madison** » Thu May 25, 2017 3:50 pm #298817

Because that entire department can delete my departmentin five minutes. The potential for snowball dictates either you're under my shoe or I get trampled under.

Yes. I will.

I'll be dead on science like "Spencer for fuckin' Hire". I'll hunt science down and replace them with loyal staff, *and* I'll do it on a word over the radio. And I don't care if RD is there, the captain, innocent bystanders, other sec, miners, other staff, whatever. I'll leave the next two departments filled with dead bodies if I have to, and you know why? 'Cause *I JUST DON'T GIVE A FUCK!* You guys sure you don't want to come to the brig? I have Implants and holy water.

ShadowDimentio · Thu May 25, 2017 3:52 pm

I remember once I rushed to toxins after I found out there were revs 'cause I knew someone was making bombs and I caught the dude the second after he finished his bombs. As I taze and go in for the implant he says he's sorry and blows us all up.

I saved the heads by sacrificing myself and got a rad story for it.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu May 25, 2017 4:06 pm #298821

Removing an overpowered role from a certain gamemode for balance reasons isn't so bad. It's called "banning a class", it's pretty common in esports and gaming tournaments.

Tgstation is the most competitive server and the closest thing to esport we have in the ss13 community, it wouldn't even be weird.

ShadowDimentio · Thu May 25, 2017 4:10 pm

Then instead of converting them they'd just be killed so sec can't have them.

Grazyn · Post by **Grazyn** » Thu May 25, 2017 4:13 pm #298826

I didn't mean "can't be cultists". I mean the whole job is just absent in cult and TDM modes. A big empty square in place of science, no backup boards, and no science job slots.

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Thu May 25, 2017 4:50 pm #298832

Grazyn wrote:I didn't mean "can't be cultists". I mean the whole job is just absent in cult and TDM modes. A big empty square in place of science, no backup boards, and no science job slots.

Cult has gone fine with science for a long time. We don't need to take science out and honestly I'm not too crazy about removing an entire department from gang, I'd rather find a way to involve security than remove them.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:01 pm #298838

Grazyn wrote:Removing an overpowered role from a certain gamemode for balance reasons isn't so bad. It's called "banning a class", it's pretty common in esports and gaming tournaments.

Tgstation is the most competitive server and the closest thing to esport we have in the ss13 community, it wouldn't even be weird.

This post gave me cancer

Bolien · Post by **Bolien** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:22 pm #298843

Wyzack wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Removing an overpowered role from a certain gamemode for balance reasons isn't so bad. It's called "banning a class", it's pretty common in esports and gaming tournaments.

Tgstation is the most competitive server and the closest thing to esport we have in the ss13 community, it wouldn't even be weird.

This post gave me cancer

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:24 pm #298844

Bolien wrote:
Wyzack wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Removing an overpowered role from a certain gamemode for balance reasons isn't so bad. It's called "banning a class", it's pretty common in esports and gaming tournaments.

Tgstation is the most competitive server and the closest thing to esport we have in the ss13 community, it wouldn't even be weird.

This post gave me cancer

Kel · Post by **Kel** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:29 pm #298848

dont turn this thread into a emptyquote meme pyramid please

captain sawrge · Thu May 25, 2017 5:29 pm

Wyzack wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Removing an overpowered role from a certain gamemode for balance reasons isn't so bad. It's called "banning a class", it's pretty common in esports and gaming tournaments.

Tgstation is the most competitive server and the closest thing to esport we have in the ss13 community, it wouldn't even be weird.

This post gave me cancer

>more than half of active gamemodes are team deathmatches
>code effort is currently focused almost entirely on new weapons and antag balance
>policy discussion is almost always about when and how its ok to kill other people
>But we're not a competitive/esports server!

onleavedontatme · Thu May 25, 2017 5:32 pm

One of the reasons that these death match modes run poorly is because their respective creators are trying to make their own game inside of SS13, but they'll never have complete control over their own balance or design because it shares a map and jobs/items with SS13.

So Grazyn is correct in that removing different parts of the game for different modes would probably make them more fun if we insist on keeping those modes.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:37 pm #298853

captain sawrge wrote:
Wyzack wrote:
Grazyn wrote:Removing an overpowered role from a certain gamemode for balance reasons isn't so bad. It's called "banning a class", it's pretty common in esports and gaming tournaments.

Tgstation is the most competitive server and the closest thing to esport we have in the ss13 community, it wouldn't even be weird.

This post gave me cancer
>more than half of active gamemodes are team deathmatches
>code effort is currently focused almost entirely on new weapons and antag balance
>policy discussion is almost always about when and how its ok to kill other people
>But we're not a competitive/esports server!

these things are all more or less true and it sucks

BeeSting12 · Post by **BeeSting12** » Thu May 25, 2017 5:50 pm #298854

Kel wrote:dont turn this thread into a emptyquote meme pyramid please

Dr_bee · Post by **Dr_bee** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:15 pm #298870

there is an easy counter-play that you could have done instead of murdering an entire department worth of people.

You could have just confiscated things you dimwit.

It is hard to make bombs with no TTVs, it is REALLY hard to make guns with no firing pins.

Borgs can be very easily destroyed if you steal the robotics console from the RD's office, and you can also use it to tell if they are rat-var'd or not.

For shits sake, ROLEPLAY A COP A LITTLE. Nanotrasan security are supposed to be elite law enforcers not god-damned mass murderers for hire.

the "they might have been antags" excuse is shit and you know it. This server used to actually hold security to some kind of standard.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:20 pm #298872

"Hey guys im here to confiscate your firing pins and transfer va-"
stunpapered, tasered, slipped, bloodboil runed or other shenanigans and then dead. Unless we make the cultists play nice too security should not have to.

D&B · Post by **D&B** » Thu May 25, 2017 6:30 pm #298875

Dr_bee wrote:there is an easy counter-play that you could have done instead of murdering an entire department worth of people.

You could have just confiscated things you dimwit.

It is hard to make bombs with no TTVs, it is REALLY hard to make guns with no firing pins.

Borgs can be very easily destroyed if you steal the robotics console from the RD's office, and you can also use it to tell if they are rat-var'd or not.

For shits sake, ROLEPLAY A COP A LITTLE. Nanotrasan security are supposed to be elite law enforcers not god-damned mass murderers for hire.

the "they might have been antags" excuse is shit and you know it. This server used to actually hold security to some kind of standard.

>Consficate slimes, TTVs, The RnD boards and mech fabricators, and gas canisters so they don't superheat them and release near the brig

Or

>Follow my orders and make sure the department is secured until we can safely clone, deconvert and implant