Flashbangs

[Owegno]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I also have to point out, that not a single person has stated why sec needs an screenwide stun, that then are immune, and are completely immune to any sort of friendly fire while using.

Flashbangs are pretty much required for security to survive during rev rounds or other teamantag rounds where you can be fighting half a dozen or more people. Removing the one item sec has to deal with mobs would upset a lot of balance in team antag rounds.

[Arianya]

I also have to point out, that not a single person has stated why sec needs an screenwide stun, that then are immune, and are completely immune to any sort of friendly fire while using.

Flashbangs are pretty much required for security to survive during rev rounds or other teamantag rounds where you can be fighting half a dozen or more people. Removing the one item sec has to deal with mobs would upset a lot of balance in team antag rounds.

Basically this.

Also for dealing with greytiders who like to disarm spam and so would be problematic to deal with with a tazer/stunbaton in certain circumstances.

[PKPenguin321]

>le "if they dont agree with any aspect of sec at all they must be strictly anti-sec" meme

I've yet to see an argument against flashbangs in here that wasn't pretty clearly from the PoV of a greytider whos salty about sec getting him with "a screenwide stun.

Hahaha point in case
>screenwide stun is objectively lame
>if you say this, it means you are a greytider and your points are invalid
>"i dont think youre all strictly anti-sec, it's just that if you disagree with me you conveniently are!"
people who read this thread should take note to ignore your posts in it

[Arianya]

>le "if they dont agree with any aspect of sec at all they must be strictly anti-sec" meme

I've yet to see an argument against flashbangs in here that wasn't pretty clearly from the PoV of a greytider whos salty about sec getting him with "a screenwide stun.

Hahaha point in case
>screenwide stun is objectively lame
>if you say this, it means you are a greytider and your points are invalid
>"i dont think youre all strictly anti-sec, it's just that if you disagree with me you conveniently are!"
people who read this thread should take note to ignore your posts in it

Funny how the guy accusing others of disqualifying people from the discussion is doing just that.

Maybe instead of accusing people of being one faction or another, you actually put forward an argument against flashbangs. You know, contribute to the discussion? Crazy idea, I know.

Screenwide stun may be "lame", but its a tactical necessity for game modes where sec will often be outnumbered, as well as situations such as greytide where individually tazing/batoning people is non-viable due to disarm spam.

If you can come up with a solution to these issues that isn't a screenwide stun or "lol git gud", feel free

[kevinz000]

stop nerfing security/silicons for once in your lives, guys.

[calzilla1]

stop nerfing security/silicons for once in your lives, guys.

[Alipheese]

>Grab any bowman headset from the various completely unguarded lockers
>Grab any pair of earmuffs in science/engineering/cargo
>Grab any pair of sunglasses/sechuds from same sec posts/maint, YOU KNOW THE THING EVERYBODY SAID EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE TO COUNTER FLASHES THATS WHY WE NEED TELEBATON

#wow
#whoa

It's almost like this game benefits people who prepare for things that fuck them over.

No Saegrimr. Thats apparently called power gaming and why many people get banned.

[Jembo]

I'm completely okay with Flashbangs being a screen wide AoE stun. But I'm completely against sec having complete immunity to them. But as it stands, the weapon is too powerful with no negatives to using it. The alternatives that have been suggested in the thread in how to change flashbangs would also still deal with those large groups of people. I'm not trying to get them removed, I'm trying to get them adjusted to be more than just a one push, you win button.

The suggestions thus far have been,
-Reduce the amount on station.
-Change the stun, to a blind, slow, and dizzy drunk like effect.
-Let flashbangs run the risk of friendly fire by removing sec immunity to them.
-Buff Teargas, and pepper spray to actually be worth a damn to counter any nerfs to flashbangs.

Also if you're having issues with assistants disarm spamming you, use one of the many options available pepperspray, flash, beepsky.

[Arianya]

I'm completely okay with Flashbangs being a screen wide AoE stun. But I'm completely against sec having complete immunity to them. But as it stands, the weapon is too powerful with no negatives to using it. The alternatives that have been suggested in the thread in how to change flashbangs would also still deal with those large groups of people. I'm not trying to get them removed, I'm trying to get them adjusted to be more than just a one push, you win button.

If you give something too large a downside (i.e. flashbangs have friendly fire) you may as well remove them, because no sec officer is going to use a flashbang that flashbangs him as well as his coworkers. In the game of stuns, you don't win by self stunning.

The suggestions thus far have been,
-Reduce the amount on station.

I wouldn't be wholly opposed to this one *if* more can be obtained elsewhere, preferably cargo as opposed to chemistry. Otherwise there'll be a high temptation from antags/greytiders to steal the limited supply of flashbangs to stop their use against them.

-Change the stun, to a blind, slow, and dizzy drunk like effect.

I'd have to see this one in action to really comment either way. My feeling is that even with a slow, the reaction will be much the same as it is with the AoE use of the flash, where people will mash movement in any direction to avoid the follow up tazer/baton, but this is one I'd be interested to see testmerged and see how it shakes out.

-Let flashbangs run the risk of friendly fire by removing sec immunity to them.

As above, this is as bad as removing them in my opinion, no one will use flashbangs when they have high potential of fucking not only yourself, but your "teammates"

-Buff Teargas, and pepper spray to actually be worth a damn to counter any nerfs to flashbangs.

Teargas as presently stands is quite powerful, but its more a dispersal then a control effect, since the obscuring effect of teargas makes it not as useful for subduing someone you want to bring in. Might work with some ghetto version of thermals for Sec that sees through smoke but not dense objects like walls/etc.

Not certain on pepper spray, but I believe all you need to counter it is internals, which makes it kinda questionable as a subject of buffs, as internals are extremely common.

Also if you're having issues with assistants disarm spamming you, use one of the many options available pepperspray, flash, beepsky.[/quote]

[oranges]

>Grab any bowman headset from the various completely unguarded lockers
>Grab any pair of earmuffs in science/engineering/cargo
>Grab any pair of sunglasses/sechuds from same sec posts/maint, YOU KNOW THE THING EVERYBODY SAID EVERYBODY WOULD HAVE TO COUNTER FLASHES THATS WHY WE NEED TELEBATON

#wow
#whoa

It's almost like this game benefits people who prepare for things that fuck them over.

No Saegrimr. Thats apparently called power gaming and why many people get banned.

If you can find an instance of someone being banned for collecting a bowman and earmuffs + sunglasses I would like to see it

[Incomptinence]

The near total protection default gear angle is pretty flawed. You should be deaf with earmuffs to get the level of protection sec currently innately gets, perhaps not even then.

Probably made the protection complete and not a resistance for balance memes congrats whoever passed that old pull you made it worse.

If you can find an instance of someone being banned for collecting a bowman and earmuffs + sunglasses I would like to see it

Y'see I thought so too but you only really need a bowman. Used to be you needed more gear it's pretty busted now used to be even earmuffs and sunnies required a few tiles distance, now sec can just stand next to it and not even flinch with standard gear. Worst nerf I ever heard of now the info is out due people complaining about it any mongo can throw it 1 tile something that used to be punished. I honestly haven't played much sec recently and still treated flashbangs like they were risky I suppose other old players did the same, new players may fail to throw... now this is general knowledge shit is gonna get bad. Game breaking too, rogue borgs and blobs are going to be evaporated.

[leibniz]

stop nerfing security/silicons for once in your lives, guys.

What nerfs? Not denying in them, but when I think about sec, mostly buffs come to mind so I am curious about about what I missed.
There was a nerf to stun times, right?

[Cobby]

Bowmans should have a toggle to protect from flashbangs but make you deaf instead of it being a counter to flashbangs by simply wearing it. A small amount of micro [and the fact you can't hear with the option] will make it pretty fair for those who want to use the AoE stun IMO. Also you have to coordinate with other officers [t-t-teamwork?] near the flashbang since you can disadvantage them if you toss one without them turning on the earmuff toggle as well.

[Sweets]

Remove Bowmens.
Make helmets/buckets/Hardsuits/mining suits block knockdown sound.
Allow crayons to be equipped in the ear slot as psuedo earplugs.

Stop trying to nerf secs only AoE Crowd control when we have 4 conversion game modes and flashbangs being one of the few reliable ways to stop dual eswords as sec without having a shotty.

[kevinz000]

Remove Bowmens.
Make helmets/buckets/Hardsuits/mining suits block knockdown sound.
Allow crayons to be equipped in the ear slot as psuedo earplugs.

Stop trying to nerf secs only AoE Crowd control when we have 4 conversion game modes and flashbangs being one of the few reliable ways to stop dual eswords as sec without having a shotty.

No.
I might add something to up the skill ceiling on it when freeze is over.

[Incomptinence]

Plodded around and unless I misunderstand things wildly looks like since the Carbon Dismemberment , second attempt was merged on 13/9/16 2 ear protection has been standardised as having no ears and being flashbang immune, you know like aliens.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... defense.dm

Code: Select all

/mob/living/carbon/human/get_ear_protection()
	if((ears && (ears.flags & EARBANGPROTECT)) || (head && (head.flags & HEADBANGPROTECT)))
return 1

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/ ... defense.dm

Code: Select all

/mob/living/carbon/get_ear_protection()
	if(head && (head.flags & HEADBANGPROTECT))
return 1

Code: Select all

/mob/living/carbon/soundbang_act(intensity = 1, stun_pwr = 1, damage_pwr = 5, deafen_pwr = 15)
	var/ear_safety = get_ear_protection()
	if(ear_safety < 2) //has ears
		var/effect_amount = intensity - ear_safety
		if(effect_amount > 0)
			if(stun_pwr)
				Stun(stun_pwr*effect_amount)
				Weaken(stun_pwr*effect_amount)
			if(deafen_pwr || damage_pwr)
				setEarDamage(ear_damage + damage_pwr*effect_amount, max(ear_deaf, deafen_pwr*effect_amount))
				if (ear_damage >= 15)
					src << "<span class='warning'>Your ears start to ring badly!</span>"
					if(prob(ear_damage - 5))
						src << "<span class='warning'>You can't hear anything!</span>"
						disabilities |= DEAF
				else if(ear_damage >= 5)
					src << "<span class='warning'>Your ears start to ring!</span>"
				src << sound('sound/weapons/flash_ring.ogg',0,1,0,250)
return effect_amount //how soundbanged we are

So unless I misunderstand this to an insane extent with standard sec gear your get_ear_protection reaches 2 and you become immune unless you sit on it like an egg and trigger the bypass effect.

Snippet from brains to show the 2 = no ears thing is fully intended

Code: Select all

+/mob/living/brain/get_ear_protection()//no ears
+	return 2

EDIT: My bad with earsafety 1 effect ammount will always zero out and prevent it doing the stun shit I don't code I just get mocked by rabid grey hearts like kor when shit's broken.

[Arianya]

Don't you fucks dare nerf my fashion gameplay.

SS13fashion is the real endgame.