[POLL] Changeling rebalance

[Hornygranny]

Extract sting no longer gives genomes (still gives appearances)
Genome objective lowered to 2-4 genomes
Debrain objective removed (you will always get genomes + steal + escape)

https://github.com/NTStation/NTstation13/pull/687

The goal of this change is to restore the horror feel of the game mode, and require that lings stick their necks out a little bit. Objective counts are still relatively low to discourage station-clearing. Debrain was removed because it's very difficult and everybody hates it. You may have negative memories of oldling, but keep in mind that people will not have parasting.

edit: If you're going to vote requires revision why not try posting your desired changes?

[Psyentific]

Low-pop 'ling is going to be a problem, but it's always been so hey.

[Ikarrus]

Requires revision is functionally he same as rejection if you don't acutally say what revision is required, guys.

It's not a middling option. It's a No.

[Tokiko2]

Spread infestation needs to be changed if this goes through since it makes the ability very difficult to obtain.

[Incomptinence]

Requires revision is functionally he same as rejection if you don't acutally say what revision is required, guys.

It's not a middling option. It's a No.

Sorry I was pretty tired when I voted I knew I would need to go into detail.

I think it needs review because ludicrous objectives even without this change don't even take the actual capabilities of the ling into account and presume it to be traitor + even though oldling couldn't even stand up to this role. We give our potentially station slaughtering wizards less busy work than our lings, is anyone going to argue a ling is stronger than a wizard?

I mean they are just not good thieves at all it isn't just brains they suck at stealing. I think this is a great opportunity to do away with an objective this antagonist has not been designed for at all.

[WeeYakk]

Will this effect hive channel or transformation sting? I can still transmit my extract sting identities to my ling pals and turn people into identities who I have extract stung?

[Hornygranny]

Yes, the only thing that extract sting doesn't give you is a genome.

[paprika]

Spread infestation needs to be changed if this goes through since it makes the ability very difficult to obtain.

How so? Genome stings don't give you points for evolutions, only absorbing people does, this has always been the case iirc.

[ExplosiveCrate]

You can't use Spread Infestation without 10 genomes. With this you'd need to kill 10 people for a... Pretty lackluster power.

[leibniz]

I would like to see revival buffed too.
- Chems should regen while you are dead
- There should be no prerequisite (atm I think it's one absorbed genome)

I think one of the nice things about changelings (or used to be) is that they just keep coming back, also having to save up 20 chems before death must be somewhat unintuitive for new players.

You can't use Spread Infestation without 10 genomes. With this you'd need to kill 10 people for a... Pretty lackluster power.

Spiders are OP anyway, it's just "press button while running around for shuttle call". It'd be nice to see them nerfed imho.

[Neerti]

If you're known to be a ling you get burned/gibbed anyways.

[leibniz]

If you're known to be a ling you get burned/gibbed anyways.

Yes. Sometimes changelings die even though others dont know that they are changelings.

[Cipher3]

If you're known to be a ling you get burned/gibbed anyways.

Because they're nigh impossible to contain unless you know all of their abilities and they haven't had a chance to reassign them.

[Oldman Robustin]

I'm in favor of all of this if lings stop getting cross-assassination objectives. Its the only gametype with its own secure antag channel that people won't cooperate on because they are worried about being backstabbed.

Teamwork between antags produces the most interesting rounds, weve already got enough lone-wolf shit.

[paprika]

I don't mind teamwork between lings being encouraged since lings can't be sec or cap. HoP might be bad, but with decent sec, a HoP ling shouldn't pose a threat.

The issue before with lings teaming up is if you had a ling in sec or captain it was GG NO RE and the entire station would become a ling breeding ground in 5 minutes, as I'm sure you remember with the lovely parasting.

[Incomptinence]

Ling sec while killy wasn't the most important thing in wrecking the whole station. Subverting or killing the AI was. Every door being a bear trap waiting to happen isn't a good thing for you.

[paprika]

mehhh that was before ais and silicons had decent counters and doesn't matter so much anymore, even good AIs can be killed with a minimal amount of effort on both maps.

[iyaerP]

Ling is the worst roundtype.

[paprika]

dat necro!

[Mastigos]

Spread infestation needs to be changed if this goes through since it makes the ability very difficult to obtain.

How so? Genome stings don't give you points for evolutions, only absorbing people does, this has always been the case iirc.

You have to have extracted at least 5 genomes to be able to get infestation. Also dat necro.

[Miauw]

does anyone have any feedback on how this affected ling?
i'm sort of curious.