Projectile Speeds

[kevinz000]

Old projectile speeds were too slow, tasers could easily be OUTRAN, not just dodged, unless you were right next to them, all projectiles are ridiculously easy to dodge.
New projectile speeds are EXTREMELY fast, EXTREMELY hard to dodge unless you have VERY fast reactions, and people are /complaining/ that they're too fast.
Are new speeds good, are old speeds better, or more importantly, should we try to find a middle ground for projectile speed that isn't too slow and too fast?
My personal opinion is that new speeds are good except for certain magic projectiles, and sniper rifles (snipers are as fast as the code will allow without hitscanning)

[lzimann]

The old projectile speed was fine. No clue why it was changed to be honest.

[onleavedontatme]

People started yelling about realism and outrunning guns again

[oranges]

You're not supposed to be able to dodge them, you never were supposed to be able to dodge them.

The game just improved to the point where your input was actually recognized fast enough.

Basically, just get used to it.

[Digdugxx]

Suddenly lots of people are going e-bow e-sword murderbone at least on Sybil because the darts are basically instant travel time.. not fun.

[onleavedontatme]

You're not supposed to be able to dodge them, you never were supposed to be able to dodge them.

The game just improved to the point where your input was actually recognized fast enough.

Basically, just get used to it.

But movespeed used to be way faster by default, and was changed with a single var, you can't say that was a bug and not a design choice.

If you think it's better now, fine, but don't pretend it was never intentional. They're also far faster now comparatively than before a recent lag fix made them feel slow.

[PKPenguin321]

The old projectile speed was fine. No clue why it was changed to be honest.

yeah this

le "it was never meant to be dodged" isn't true as far as i can tell, saxxing is a meme as old as time.

[kevinz000]

Old projectile speeds drastically favored people being chased, as tasers/disablers had no chance of hitting unless your target is less than 3 tiles infront of you or running at you.

[Incomptinence]

Do pixel projectiles make shots less likely to go straight? I mean the increased deviation plus pap's stupid range limit on taser bolts, I mean no wonder it was a dodgers paradise before this.

[CPTANT]

Do pixel projectiles make shots less likely to go straight? I mean the increase deviation plus pap's stupid range limit on taser bolts, I mean no wonder it was a dodgers paradise before this.

In my experience pixel projectiles made things harder to hit, you can't fire in a straight line without clicking EXACTLY right.

[lzimann]

Old projectile speeds drastically favored people being chased, as tasers/disablers had no chance of hitting unless your target is less than 3 tiles infront of you or running at you.

Yea and now the projectiles just instantly reaches you!

[Shaps-cloud]

ranged weapons already have the benefit of being... ranged weapons, that you can fire in some cases multiple times in the time it takes for someone to strike with melee once and ready another swing. Why do they need to be buffed?

I thought chases where people desperately try and juke away from security/whoever had a taser/ebow was fun, but now pretty much any chase that goes down a straight hallway is pretty much a 100% win for the guy with the gun, did sec really need this buff?

[Durkel]

Changes like these combined with the multiple knee jerk reaction nerfs up on git currently are really making me lose faith in our codebase. I don't understand why we need to constantly change shit under the pretense of realism when we have literal fucking wizards, space defying teleportation, and other equally retarded prospects.

Good fucking lord, stop touching the code if you're angry about something.

[CPTANT]

Changes like these combined with the multiple knee jerk reaction nerfs up on git currently are really making me lose faith in our codebase. I don't understand why we need to constantly change shit under the pretense of realism when we have literal fucking wizards, space defying teleportation, and other equally retarded prospects.

Good fucking lord, stop touching the code if you're angry about something.

It's not about realism, outrunning bullets and lasers is retarded gameplay wise.

[Shaps-cloud]

Changes like these combined with the multiple knee jerk reaction nerfs up on git currently are really making me lose faith in our codebase. I don't understand why we need to constantly change shit under the pretense of realism when we have literal fucking wizards, space defying teleportation, and other equally retarded prospects.

Good fucking lord, stop touching the code if you're angry about something.

It's not about realism, outrunning bullets and lasers is retarded gameplay wise.

Ranged weapons already let you attack from a distance where people with melee weapons can't retaliate, let you attack multiple times in the time it takes to attack with melee (usually with more damage as well, compare multiple 20 burn lasers in a second versus a single 10 force baton smash), and in no way preclude your ability to use melee yourself. You can dump a laser gun into someone from a distance and then close in for the kill with the advantage of having more health, acting like this is necessary to keep guns in line with melee weapons for balance purposes is retarded since they're already demonstrably better and can be used alongside melee weapons anyway

[CPTANT]

Changes like these combined with the multiple knee jerk reaction nerfs up on git currently are really making me lose faith in our codebase. I don't understand why we need to constantly change shit under the pretense of realism when we have literal fucking wizards, space defying teleportation, and other equally retarded prospects.

Good fucking lord, stop touching the code if you're angry about something.

It's not about realism, outrunning bullets and lasers is retarded gameplay wise.

Ranged weapons already let you attack from a distance where people with melee weapons can't retaliate, let you attack multiple times in the time it takes to attack with melee (usually with more damage as well, compare multiple 20 burn lasers in a second versus a single 10 force baton smash), and in no way preclude your ability to use melee yourself. You can dump a laser gun into someone from a distance and then close in for the kill with the advantage of having more health, acting like this is necessary to keep guns in line with melee weapons for balance purposes is retarded since they're already demonstrably better and can be used alongside melee weapons anyway

How does this make it any less retarded to outrun bullets?

[onleavedontatme]

You just keep repeating "it's retarded" as if it's self evident, you have yet to articulate a reason why though.

[Shaps-cloud]

How does this make it any less retarded to outrun bullets?

It's not about realism, outrunning bullets and lasers is retarded gameplay wise.

You are a bad poster and you make bad posts

[ShadowDimentio]

Projectiles should be dodgeable, but not easily so. Personally I think only a small increase would have been good.

[yackemflam]

It's stupid that you can outrun a projectile in the sense that theoretically you can never get hit by one.
It makes playing sec hell as you have a harder time hitting any unruly assistant who knows that they are being targeted.
I've seen sec run out of ammo more times than actually hit an assistant.

[Incomptinence]

My point would be we passed through a nadir in precision and this feels like the resulting overreaction but hey it's repeating uncreative sound bites in post form that gets responses so:

"it's retarded"

[Grazyn]

It's not retarded, it's gameplay. Stuns, both melee and ranged, each have their pros and cons. With ranged stuns you trade accuracy and duration for range. This means that if you want to stun/damage an unsuspecting target, you have to get close to him. Otherwise it would just be plain unbalanced to be stunned or killed by someone from the other side of the room. This balance allows players to quickly and easily assess the threat level posed by people around them at a glance, the closer they are, the higher the threat. Gameplay has been like that since time immemorial, any change must be tweaked very carefully as to preserve it.

[onleavedontatme]

>Gameplay has been like that since time immemorial

And in almost every other videogame/boardgame/tabletop game/pen and paper game involving a mix of melee and ranged as well. Giving every single advantage to the kind of combat that is already inherently better by being ranged is silly.