[Saegrimr] Terry Newday - Permanent Ban

[Deskdrawer]

Byond account and character name: Deskdrawer, Terry Newday

Banning admin: Saegrimr

Ban Type: Permanent server ban

Ban reason and length: "Constant greytiding, and lieing to me about situations around his ahelp. Powergames the fuck out of roundstart, loads up on prods, cuffs, insuls, all that typical shit to break into the captains office. Finds someone else there and gets into a slapfight with another greyshit, Gets out played then adhelps that nobody saved him while deliberately misrepresenting what happened and insteaddemands that I "do my job" and ban a mostly uninvolved detective for not doing his job."

Time ban was placed (including time zone): 11/1/2016, 12:30AM PST

Your side of the story: Simple, I never ahelped about nobody saving me as Saegrimr wrote, I ahelped that the detective isn't doing his job, which he wasn't. The previous round I went on a low pop murderbone spree that was pretty hefty, and in line with my objective which was to die gloriously. At the end of the round I noticed an admin, can't say it was Saegrimr for sure, added a third object that said basically "Brag about low pop murderbone acting like it makes you robust." I forget the exact wordage as the round ended, but if it WAS Saegrimr that added it, seems like he was already ticked off at me beforehand.

As far as the round I was banned in is concerned, I did what I usually due, go get the insulated gloves, raise some hell, as any assistant does. While on my collection spree, walking by the corridor between medbay and the teleporter room, I heard someone breaking into the captains office, which is good because it means I could snag up the ID before the guy in there. We ran around in there chasing and punching each other and I got dunked, and dragged over to the HoPs office while the assistant who took the caps ID attempted entry. The detective walked by, saw us, batoned the assistant (Kevin Walker) 3 times, and then just left. Left an assistant dragging my body, who has access to the HoPs office, as the only security presence on the station. Kevin revived me at this point, where I naturally started calling for help. The detective responded by saying he decided his punishment for murder and grand theft was 3 stun hits. Well, that's absurd, I think most would agree if you're going to take a sec job with higher responsibility than say a botanist, you should actually attempt to DO your job, it's even recommended in all the guides if you're going to take the job you need to be prepared to do it.

So I ahelped that the detective needs a job ban, I never said I want people to help me, it's not random peoples jobs to, I was focused on the detective not doing his job. The admin responded with very short questions that had nothing to do with the detective not doing his job, and everything to do with what I was doing, the admin was solely focused on me, and given the previous objective attributed to basically mock me earlier, I feel that Saegrimr was biased for some reason. So yes, asked if he was going to do his job, and if he wasn't, would I have to bring it up to a head admin. He then threatened that what I was doing was as bad as the detective not doing his job, I honestly don't remember exactly what was said next, but it was along the lines of him doing his job as an admin, and I was banned soon afterwards.

So in summary, Saegrimr lied about what the ahelp pertained to, he said I lied to him, when I didn't, and I would like him to point out exactly where I lied to him if he feels I did. I didn't have any stun prod on me, so I don't know why he said I was loaded up with prods, I didn't find someone else there, I knew he was there, I could hear the door being crowbarred open, asked specifically about the detective, not talking about no one helping me, but he was right, I did ask him to do his job.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but it feels like I was unfairly targeted because of my muderboning the previous round, the fact the mocking objective exists, the fact he didn't even consider my side of the story and completely ignored the detective admitting he wasn't going to do his job, the fact he ignored 2 other members of the crew, chaplain specifically metagrudging me from last round, all of this tells me he let his emotions make the call to perma ban me instead of actually being reasonable.

I don't have anything against the guy, I just don't know why I was unfairly targeted like that, and I'd appreciate any help or insight to the situation. Also, I don't know how the detective was "mostly uninvolved" when he saw my body, the blood trail, Kevin, and then admitted he knew what Kevin had done. That sounds VERY involved to me.

[Saegrimr]

Simple, I never ahelped about nobody saving me as Saegrimr wrote, I ahelped that the detective isn't doing his job, which he wasn't.

His job being what, saving your ass while you were unconscious next to another guy? Which you immediately yelled shit detective as soon as you were healed back into consciousness?

At the end of the round I noticed an admin, can't say it was Saegrimr for sure, added a third object that said basically "Brag about low pop murderbone acting like it makes you robust."

Yes, that also isn't the first time you've been seen murderboning sub-10 players.

As far as the round I was banned in is concerned, I did what I usually due, go get the insulated gloves, raise some hell, as any assistant does.

I think most would agree if you're going to take a sec job with higher responsibility than say a botanist, you should actually attempt to DO your job, it's even recommended in all the guides if you're going to take the job you need to be prepared to do it.

How about you do your job as an assistant and assist, not tide.
Oh. Wait.

So I ahelped that the detective needs a job ban, I never said I want people to help me, it's not random peoples jobs to, I was focused on the detective not doing his job.

And I was focused on why that situation happened in the first place. Things happen for a reason, if it didn't then I could convince Kor to just automatically ban anybody who causes damage to another player and isn't an antagonist.

I want to know why you were attacked, why you were breaking into the Cap's office, and why a detective would pass on helping you after seeing you get dragged out of the captain's office.
You can claim you didn't want to be helped all you want, but it doesn't change the fact you got outrobusted and wanted someone's ass for it.

You can consider this a Rule 1 ban if nothing else, because I don't think your playstyle is particularly healthy for server population.

Have some ahelp logs too.

Spoiler:

HELP: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): Detective needs a job ban pretty quick. - heard by 0 non-AFK admins who have +BAN.
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): Why so?
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): Because he walked right by a murderer and grand theft ID stealer and did nothing.
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): Oh, why did you get murdered?
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): I took the ID and me and kevin were fighting each other, and then he started dragging my body around the detective said he wasnt interested in doing his job
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): You look pretty alive.
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): Yeah kevin fixed me up, but the detective did nothing but baton the guy a couple times and leave.
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): Why did you take the captain's ID?
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): Because someone else opened the door anyway
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): Specifically kevin
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): And now the crew is metagrudging me for murderboning them lol
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): You just followed an open door into the cap's office and did a good deed?
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): Are you going to do your job as an admin or do I need to bring it up to a head admin? Because nothing you're saying has anything to do with the fact a detective took the role and is completely neglecting his job.
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): I'm asking you the details here.
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): I could say the same for an assistant who isn't helping but instead is tiding.
PM: Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke)->Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday): So which direction should we go here?
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): You're asking a bunch of irrelevent information, the detective didn't do his job at all and left me there, and blatantly said in chat he doesnt intend to do his job.
PM: Deskdrawer/(Terry Newday)->Saegrimr/(Sebastian Clarke): We should go the direction where you do your job as an admin, tiding isn't against any rules.

So yes, asked if he was going to do his job, and if he wasn't, would I have to bring it up to a head admin.

I fucking love this shit, why do people think holding this up above my head is gonna make me roll over and pretend to be a dog?
OH YESSUH PLEASE DONT TELL MASSUH HE GON BEAT ME AGAIN!

[Deskdrawer]

His job being what, saving your ass while you were unconscious next to another guy? Which you immediately yelled shit detective as soon as you were healed back into consciousness?

His job isn't to save my ass specifically, but, as stated before if he sees someone obviously fucked up with a blood trail and another assistant who has stolen access to the HoP office, yes, he should do his job. I don't understand your reasoning here honestly, are you saying he shouldn't step in given the situation? Or just, he shouldn't step in because it's specifically me that's fucked up?

Yes, that also isn't the first time you've been seen murderboning sub-10 players.

So you were being biased against me then? There's no rule against this, especially not when it's a shuttle hijack or die gloriously objective.

How about you do your job as an assistant and assist, not tide.

You're absolutely correct, but if this is grounds for being permanently banned was the detective permanently banned as well? Again, I wasn't complaining that I got fucked up, I was complaining the only security presence on the station admitted he wasn't intending to enforce the law beyond stunning someone a few times, regardless of grand theft or murder lol. Are you saying that's not worth complaining about?

And I was focused on why that situation happened in the first place. Things happen for a reason, if it didn't then I could convince Kor to just automatically ban anybody who causes damage to another player and isn't an antagonist.

But I challenge you with the idea that the detective doesn't have this meta knowledge, he saw an assistant with HoP access dragging a fucked up body around. He can't just assume "oh that guy musta done somethin wrong, nope not gonna do my job tday" any more than he can kill someone for assuming he's a traitor.

but it doesn't change the fact you got outrobusted and wanted someone's ass for it.

Yes, I got dunked on, tip my hat to him, good job? It's just a game mate, if I wanted "revenge" I would have just waited till I was free and taken it, I ahelped against the detective because he blatantly disregarded his duty, that's why I ahelped on HIM and not on the assistant lol. I'm seriously having trouble following your implications here, if I wanted him to be fucked with, why didn't I ahelp against him? Because he had really, given the situation, nothing wrong that required an admin. The fight was mutual between us, he won, the detective came, he saw, he lulzed away.

You can consider this a Rule 1 ban if nothing else, because I don't think your playstyle is particularly healthy for server population.

If it's a rule 1 ban, and not "lying" to you, why is the ban permanent? Because you have a beef with me and are using it specifically to justify saying my actions aren't healthy for the server population lol? I mean cmon, honestly, it's obvious you're taking a SERIOUS emotional and personal investment in this, between the all caps writing, the mocking, the insults, I think you may be a little biased in your judgement. And this was why I asked if I should go to a headmin for it, if you weren't going to help me with my situation, am I not allowed to go higher with it? I thought that's kinda why there are head admins in the first place, it was obvious you weren't going to help me with my issue, so yes, I was going to bring a detective blatantly disregarding his job up the chain.

I fucking love this shit, why do people think holding this up above my head is gonna make me roll over and pretend to be a dog?
OH YESSUH PLEASE DONT TELL MASSUH HE GON BEAT ME AGAIN!

I think you're running a little wild with your imagination honestly, I don't have any personal issue with you, I was looking for an admin to help, I don't even know who you are but you seem to have followed me very closely and be VERY opinionated of me for some reason.

Have some ahelp logs too.

This confirms everything I've said, thank you for posting the logs.

[Saegrimr]

Yes, i've followed you closely for the end of the round where you basically ran around hunting for every last one of the 8 players online decked out with the armory, checked your notes and saw this is pretty standard behavior from you, and finally decided i'd had enough after watching you gear up to get out-robusted while breaking into the cap's office and then complain that someone else needs to be banned when they didn't save your ass.

Sorry. I don't buy it. And I don't think you're worth keeping around.

[Deskdrawer]

Yes, i've followed you closely for the end of the round where you basically ran around hunting for every last one of the 8 players online decked out with the armory, checked your notes and saw this is pretty standard behavior from you

It's worth mentioning that not only is this not against any rules, but my objective was clearly to die gloriously. How would you have me die gloriously? Suicide? Play along with everyone on the station? I'm honestly curious.

and finally decided i'd had enough after watching you gear up to get out-robusted while breaking into the cap's office and then complain that someone else needs to be banned when they didn't save your ass.

Oh right, you mean with the stun prod you claimed I had, when I didn't? If you had followed me so closely, why didn't you know I clearly heard the doors being crowbared open? Level with me, it seems like YOU personally do not like me, and I don't think it's fair to be perm banned by someone who bans people not because of the rules, but because he doesn't like someone.

Sorry. I don't buy it. And I don't think you're worth keeping around.

That's the entire point of this appeal though, I'm waiting for someone who isn't as emotionally invested to make a statement, I already know you don't want me around, that's why you banned me, because you personally don't want me around. Again, I got nothing against you personally, but I'd appreciate a fair shake from a second opinion, one that isn't gunning for me for personal reasons.

[Saegrimr]

Another classic, the "admin has a grudge against me".

You certainly aren't the first and likely wont be the last to claim that, but sure. Chime in headmins. There's one who has already given me the OK but can't post at the moment.

[Deskdrawer]

Another classic, the "admin has a grudge against me".

You certainly aren't the first and likely wont be the last to claim that, but sure. Chime in headmins. There's one who has already given me the OK but can't post at the moment.

It's not really a belief as much as it is you specifically just told me you were following me and scrutinizing every move, not to mention you padded the ban reason with a lie.

[Saegrimr]

Should I change it from lying to "threatening to report me to the headmins for trying to get the full story out of you that you're trying to not talk about"?

I mean this isn't exactly the first time you left out some keen details about a situation, while greytiding, even better when I get to watch it happen step by step.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 1&p=142713

[Deskdrawer]

Should I change it from lying to "threatening to report me to the headmins for trying to get the full story out of you that you're trying to not talk about"?

That's up to you, you've changed it once from lying to you, to rule 1 breaking, why not change it again to fit your needs lol? I mean cmon, I'm not even beefing with you, the ban has no ground to stand on. You changed it when the logs proved you wrong, and now you're wanting to change it because I "threatened you." Keep in mind, I never threatened you, I don't care about you, I asked if I need to bring the ahelp about the detective to the head admins. I wasn't trying to report you, I was trying to report the detective, obviously, clearly in the text. Unless of course you're trying to perceive it as a threat to have anything to use against me. Much like lying about what the ahelp was pertaining to, and that I had a stun prod. Give me a fair shake, please, this is ridiculous, whatever I did to you personally I'm sorry, all I want is you to take the emotional goggles off and see my side of the story reasonably, and not personally.

I mean this isn't exactly the first time you left out some keen details about a situation, while greytiding, even better when I get to watch it happen step by step.
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 1&p=142713

Funny, the reason this isn't the first time is because that perm ban was overturned. I don't know why you're using an overturned ban as evidence against me.

[oranges]

low pop murderboner owned

[Lumbermancer]

the detective isn't doing his job, which he wasn't.

Detective's job is investigating the crime and reporting it back to security. He is not supposed to enforce spess law. He is not a glorified fedora-wearing beat cop. So ironically he did his job all too well.

[Deskdrawer]

the detective isn't doing his job, which he wasn't.

Detective's job is investigating the crime and reporting it back to security. He is not supposed to enforce spess law. He is not a glorified fedora-wearing beat cop. So ironically he did his job all too well.

Spare Time

Technically, the above represents the entirety of the detective's job. Despite this, you will rarely be called upon to investigate a crime, you will have to investigate crime scenes on your own initiative. Luckily, there are some other things that the Detective can do instead:

Snoop around. You have access to the maintenance shafts around the station, allowing you to find things off-camera.
Be a general assistant to Security.
Be personal bodyguard to somebody, ideally a weaker head of staff like the RD. You're quite intimidating aesthetically, even though you're no more (and arguably less) dangerous than the average security officer.
Use the camera terminal in your office to scan the station - it looks like an old-fashioned TV. Look around for any crimes, then report it over the Security channel or head over there yourself. It's probably not a good idea to announce it over the general radio, or the criminal in question will usually realize that you're onto them and get away.
Update the security records. This is meant to be the Warden's job, but you'll be hard pressed to see him actually doing that.

Specifically looking at general assistant to security, which is very pertinent when you're the ONLY security member on station.

[lzimann]

I don't believe we need this kind of player here. Appeal denied.