About Lava Staff
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About Lava Staff
Seriously. It's terribly overpowered, instant kill on anyone without fire protection, creates lasting lava traps that are impossible to remove without an RCD.
Then I see non-antags use it, creating traps people die on. That, or miners die to antags and give them free murderbone loot. It's the kind of item that should never even be present on station. Restrict its use to Lavaland or make it go entirely, because there really should be a limit to bullshit like this.
Then I see non-antags use it, creating traps people die on. That, or miners die to antags and give them free murderbone loot. It's the kind of item that should never even be present on station. Restrict its use to Lavaland or make it go entirely, because there really should be a limit to bullshit like this.
Last edited by Slignerd on Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
You need to kill a dragon to get it though, and even killing it's not a 100% drop.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
That doesn't make it balanced, or even sensible. Would you add pulse or instakill rifles to R&D on high levels, just on the basis that it takes a lot of research to get it, and that the items for these levels might not always be there? Maybe even researchable supermatter sword? It would be on par with the current lavastaff situation.
The issue is that experienced players can get those on a regular basis, and then fuck over anyone else with a one-hit-kill weapon.
The issue is that experienced players can get those on a regular basis, and then fuck over anyone else with a one-hit-kill weapon.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
It instakilled me and I was in fucking drake armor.
Id say remove the ability to place lava ontop of attacking someone. It does the same damage as esword
Id say remove the ability to place lava ontop of attacking someone. It does the same damage as esword
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
I couldn't kill a roboticist with it with even two hits
What the fuck
Oh wait right i was on fucking harm intent
What the fuck
Oh wait right i was on fucking harm intent
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
The real joke here is that supermatter swords, instakill rifles and pulse rifles actually leave less lasting damage behind despite being regarded as adminbus weapons.Sligneris wrote:Would you add pulse or instakill rifles to R&D on high levels, just on the basis that it takes a lot of research to get it, and that the items for these levels might not always be there? Maybe even researchable supermatter sword? It would be on par with the current lavastaff situation.
Last edited by Slignerd on Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
relly makes u thinkSligneris wrote:The real joke here is that supermatter swords, instakill rifles and pulse rifles actually leave less lasting damage despite behind being regarded as adminbus weapons.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
Maybe it needs a slight delay on the tile turning to lava.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
Saegrimr wrote:relly makes u thinkSligneris wrote:The real joke here is that supermatter swords, instakill rifles and pulse rifles actually leave less lasting damage despite behind being regarded as adminbus weapons.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
High level RD can instantly create a singularity anywhere they want, and roundstart RD gets maxcaps. Of course you're going to find more "lasting damage" if you compare a gun like the instant kill rifle or radiation based sword which is meant to kill mobs directly to something meant to ruin the map.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
And a similarly low number of people can kill the megafauna on a regular basis.
Which is really the heart of the issue. How high do we let the skill ceiling be/how can you possibly balance a game where players with 10k connections are playing alongside people on their first day, and everywhere inbetween.
Which is really the heart of the issue. How high do we let the skill ceiling be/how can you possibly balance a game where players with 10k connections are playing alongside people on their first day, and everywhere inbetween.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
Biggest difference is in the usage. You can't BoH bomb without sacrificing yourself and ending your own round. You can't use a maxcamp right away, either - you need to set it up, vacate the area, then hope that no one disarmed it before you got to detonate.
It doesn't compare to "one click with an item in your hand to send a person to crit, burn whatever remains on them and create a permanent lava trap". Even if it's an achievement item, it is not balanced - since again, it doesn't make much more sense than being awarded an instakill rifle or a supermatter sword on an away mission.
Even if you need to slay a beast to get it, it doesn't change much, since it's not all that difficult to kill a dragon on Lavaland with full mining equipment - and the reality of the situation is that just today, we had three rounds in a row with lavastaff being brought to the station and used to murder people and create tons of lava pools.
It just needs to go, or stay at Lavaland. Honestly.
It doesn't compare to "one click with an item in your hand to send a person to crit, burn whatever remains on them and create a permanent lava trap". Even if it's an achievement item, it is not balanced - since again, it doesn't make much more sense than being awarded an instakill rifle or a supermatter sword on an away mission.
Even if you need to slay a beast to get it, it doesn't change much, since it's not all that difficult to kill a dragon on Lavaland with full mining equipment - and the reality of the situation is that just today, we had three rounds in a row with lavastaff being brought to the station and used to murder people and create tons of lava pools.
It just needs to go, or stay at Lavaland. Honestly.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
If killing a drake is so easy, then why not go hunt them all and burn the staff in lava?
There's far worse things on station, honestly. This is just another "I got dunked by x lavaland item remove he" episode
There's far worse things on station, honestly. This is just another "I got dunked by x lavaland item remove he" episode
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
Like? Name one other thing that allows for such an inconsequential murder rampage, killing most people in a single click and leaving a barely passable permanent deathtrap behind?D&B wrote:There's far worse things on station, honestly.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
Things about the lava staff that are good
Yeah this isn't super great but other things are just as dumb (I'd like to see them all get fixed though)
- * It's novel
* It's powerful
* The cooldown is fucking gigantic
* It's obvious who has it and that they should be dunked
- *Lava is permanent
*People are too stupid to use extinguishers to save themselves
*It ignores things like windows
*You can put it directly under people
Yeah this isn't super great but other things are just as dumb (I'd like to see them all get fixed though)
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
By the time you get to an extinguisher you're probably dead. If the initial ball didn't kill you, you take like 40 burn damage instantly the moment you step on the lava.
Dropping and rolling doesn't work due to lmaofirestacks, i'm still not sure why we still have that mechanic.
Dropping and rolling doesn't work due to lmaofirestacks, i'm still not sure why we still have that mechanic.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
You take 20 burn damage. There is no "initial ball", because it doesn't launch projectiles. And firestacks exist so that stop drop & roll isn't the solution to every source of fire in the game, so extinguishers have merit.Saegrimr wrote:By the time you get to an extinguisher you're probably dead. If the initial ball didn't kill you, you take like 40 burn damage instantly the moment you step on the lava.
Dropping and rolling doesn't work due to lmaofirestacks, i'm still not sure why we still have that mechanic.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
FreonSligneris wrote:Like? Name one other thing that allows for such an inconsequential murder rampage, killing most people in a single click and leaving a barely passable permanent deathtrap behind?D&B wrote:There's far worse things on station, honestly.
Spoiler:
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
And freon is harder to remove too. Lava is just use a RCD, freon takes forever.D&B wrote:FreonSligneris wrote:Like? Name one other thing that allows for such an inconsequential murder rampage, killing most people in a single click and leaving a barely passable permanent deathtrap behind?D&B wrote:There's far worse things on station, honestly.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
It would be better to have it be a drop from the boss legion when you kill it completely. Maybe a 50%/50% chance with the staff of storms.
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Re: Remove Lava Staff
That would work when it comes to making it harded to get, but it does not fix the item itself. My issue is with how it works, not with how obtainable it is.
Personally, another idea I had for nerfing it aside from limiting its use to Lavaland is to force the staff's user to stand still for a short while in order to successfully summon a lava pool - making it a remote, lava-spawning RCD. Obviously, there would bave to be a clear indication that a lava pool is being created.
Giving people the opportunity to avoid it or interrupt it would balance it well, in my opinion. Instead of, you know. Keeping it as an instant death button it is now. You'd still be able to use it on your victims, but you need to stun them somehow first. It would also be more suitable for creating traps and obstructing passage instead of using it as simply a ranged weapon.
Since it'd be a hard nerf, it would be fine to reduce its cooldown in return, allowing the user to create larger lava pools when given time. But the staff definitely can't stay like it is now.
Personally, another idea I had for nerfing it aside from limiting its use to Lavaland is to force the staff's user to stand still for a short while in order to successfully summon a lava pool - making it a remote, lava-spawning RCD. Obviously, there would bave to be a clear indication that a lava pool is being created.
Giving people the opportunity to avoid it or interrupt it would balance it well, in my opinion. Instead of, you know. Keeping it as an instant death button it is now. You'd still be able to use it on your victims, but you need to stun them somehow first. It would also be more suitable for creating traps and obstructing passage instead of using it as simply a ranged weapon.
Since it'd be a hard nerf, it would be fine to reduce its cooldown in return, allowing the user to create larger lava pools when given time. But the staff definitely can't stay like it is now.
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Re: About Lava Staff
Good thing freon is getting removed ayyyyyy.
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Re: About Lava Staff
lava staff was a mistake
t. rouge.os
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Re: About Lava Staff
1. don't go near the guy with the lava staff if you don't wanna risk dying in lava
2. don't step in lava you fucking retard
There now it's balanced
2. don't step in lava you fucking retard
There now it's balanced
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Re: About Lava Staff
I don't mind lava staffs but this line of reasoning is pretty fucjing dumb matePKPenguin321 wrote:1. don't go near the guy with the lava staff if you don't wanna risk dying in lava
2. don't step in lava you fucking retard
There now it's balanced
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Re: About Lava Staff
Idk man using these two simple steps I've managed to not die to the lava staff even a single time so I'd say it's pretty solidTechnoAlchemist wrote:I don't mind lava staffs but this line of reasoning is pretty fucjing dumb matePKPenguin321 wrote:1. don't go near the guy with the lava staff if you don't wanna risk dying in lava
2. don't step in lava you fucking retard
There now it's balanced
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Re: About Lava Staff
Bolting someone into a room? Absolutely reprehensible! NO FUN!
Barring someone behind lava death moats? Git gut!
The penguin perspective.
Barring someone behind lava death moats? Git gut!
The penguin perspective.
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Re: About Lava Staff
I know I shouldn't even be taking this bait, but there is a vast difference between a player being able to remotely and instantly seal off entire departments without warning, and another player running around with an obvious and unwieldy item making a single tile impassable every 30 seconds.Incomptinence wrote:Bolting someone into a room? Absolutely reprehensible! NO FUN!
Barring someone behind lava death moats? Git gut!
The penguin perspective.
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Re: About Lava Staff
Every 20 seconds.
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Re: About Lava Staff
One day I spent 10 minutes in escape lavaing it all, no one bothered to stop(even with me screaming stupid things about it), then they complained about it being op after I managed to escape alone using just the lavastaff.
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Re: About Lava Staff
You know. I personally don't find the Lavastaff so bad, atleast compared to the Singularity. A round-ending thing which either through sabotage, or incompetance, can be releasedf a few minutes within round start, and one it heads to the station, its game over. Lavastaff has nothing on it.
And considering we have a handy beacon to make sure the singularity heads to the station and ends the round...yah...
And considering we have a handy beacon to make sure the singularity heads to the station and ends the round...yah...
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Re: About Lava Staff
Because you still had one click kill weapon during all that time, and could barely be stopped? It feels like people who defend it never really died to it to see how bullshit it is to instantly create lasting pools of lava in one click.lzimann wrote:One day I spent 10 minutes in escape lavaing it all, no one bothered to stop(even with me screaming stupid things about it), then they complained about it being op after I managed to escape alone using just the lavastaff.
And no, it's not comparable to singularity at all. You can't control singularity - it might just as easily simply move away from the station. The one item that enables you to control its general direction costs you most of your points and much like bombs, can be easily sabotaged by any crew that find it.
The issue is having any way to defend from it. And as it stands, you have no way to defend from a lava staff - you can't attempt to dodge it, since it's instant. Once it does hit you, there's no way you'll have a chance to escape, since it puts most crew into instant crit. Nerf it or remove it. Seriously. You should at least be forced to stun people before creating a lava death trap beneath their feet.
Last edited by Slignerd on Sat Sep 03, 2016 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: About Lava Staff
that's retard logic and you know itPKPenguin321 wrote:1. don't go near the guy with the lava staff if you don't wanna risk dying in lava
2. don't step in lava you fucking retard
There now it's balanced
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Re: About Lava Staff
thank u for taking the bait for meKor wrote:I know I shouldn't even be taking this bait, but there is a vast difference between a player being able to remotely and instantly seal off entire departments without warning, and another player running around with an obvious and unwieldy item making a single tile impassable every 30 seconds.Incomptinence wrote:Bolting someone into a room? Absolutely reprehensible! NO FUN!
Barring someone behind lava death moats? Git gut!
The penguin perspective.
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Re: About Lava Staff
I was going to say this. I know I sure wouldn't bother trying to attack someone with a lava staff. I assume he had ash drake armor too, so good luck even hitting him with lasers.Sligneris wrote:Because you still had one click kill weapon during all that time, and could barely be stopped?lzimann wrote:One day I spent 10 minutes in escape lavaing it all, no one bothered to stop(even with me screaming stupid things about it), then they complained about it being op after I managed to escape alone using just the lavastaff.
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Re: About Lava Staff
>Kor still defending the lava staff
SHIP THE WAVES
SHIP THE WAVES
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Re: About Lava Staff
oranges wrote:>Kor still defending the lava staff
SHIP THE WAVES
?Kor wrote:Maybe it needs a slight delay on the tile turning to lava.
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Re: About Lava Staff
Oh sure it's just a ranged near guaranteed kill item that makes more PERMANENT death traps any fucking where. Oh boohoo it has a cool down, not like the placement of doors have greater constrictions even with RCDs.
Dohoho but as long as it's not remote it's fiiiiine! Don't think about how many lava tiles can entomb a low tools job that can't break out! Then go to the disposals bins as an excuse and forget virology or some xenobiology rooms! Don't envision the next logical step of putting a catch all lava tile in the mail room to make any workplace where people don't tote toolboxes a tomb!
Dohoho but as long as it's not remote it's fiiiiine! Don't think about how many lava tiles can entomb a low tools job that can't break out! Then go to the disposals bins as an excuse and forget virology or some xenobiology rooms! Don't envision the next logical step of putting a catch all lava tile in the mail room to make any workplace where people don't tote toolboxes a tomb!
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Re: About Lava Staff
implying you can't just reroute disposals into the crusher, space or the singulo and be a million percent less conspicuous that it's a deathtrapIncomptinence wrote:Dohoho but as long as it's not remote it's fiiiiine! Don't think about how many lava tiles can entomb a low tools job that can't break out! Then go to the disposals bins as an excuse and forget virology or some xenobiology rooms! Don't envision the next logical step of putting a catch all lava tile in the mail room to make any workplace where people don't tote toolboxes a tomb!
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Re: About Lava Staff
One time I routed disposals into an emagged crusher, placed a chute in a hallway, then got a spray bottle of water and noslips and an ebow. I set up water near the chute and dragged people into it when they slipped. I killed basically all but like 5 people on the station doing this
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Re: About Lava Staff
Rerouting disposals into the crusher takes more time and unlike ranged death trap stick doesn't give you a means to basically FORCE goombas to use it.Screemonster wrote: implying you can't just reroute disposals into the crusher, space or the singulo and be a million percent less conspicuous that it's a deathtrap
Imagine penguin's epic story but entire jobs basically end up putting THEMSELVES into the disposals.
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Re: About Lava Staff
Cheridan wrote:I was going to say this. I know I sure wouldn't bother trying to attack someone with a lava staff. I assume he had ash drake armor too, so good luck even hitting him with lasers.Sligneris wrote:Because you still had one click kill weapon during all that time, and could barely be stopped?lzimann wrote:One day I spent 10 minutes in escape lavaing it all, no one bothered to stop(even with me screaming stupid things about it), then they complained about it being op after I managed to escape alone using just the lavastaff.
Ash drake armor doesnt make lasers or tasers less effective the fuck are you talking about?
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Re: About Lava Staff
Mining also has cheap adrenals if you care to buy them.Bombadil wrote:Cheridan wrote:I was going to say this. I know I sure wouldn't bother trying to attack someone with a lava staff. I assume he had ash drake armor too, so good luck even hitting him with lasers.Sligneris wrote:Because you still had one click kill weapon during all that time, and could barely be stopped?lzimann wrote:One day I spent 10 minutes in escape lavaing it all, no one bothered to stop(even with me screaming stupid things about it), then they complained about it being op after I managed to escape alone using just the lavastaff.
Ash drake armor doesnt make lasers or tasers less effective the fuck are you talking about?
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