Basil rule enforcement and High RP Enforcement.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:37 am #193245

So since I asked Kor in OOC chat like 20 times but didn't really get a clear response other than "Durrr don't play there" from some random pubbies.

Is Basil based on it's own unique ruleset and is High RP admin enforceable on Basil. The current rules state nothing about this and a clarification is required, especially a clear Basil ruleset if there are differences with the current ruleset.

Bawhoppennn · Post by **Bawhoppennn** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:38 am #193246

Kor literally said yes

Bawhoppennn · Post by **Bawhoppennn** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:39 am #193247

also theres alot more to discuss but I gotta get outta here

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:41 am #193250

Bawhoppennn wrote:Kor literally said yes

I didn't see that,

In which case I would like confirmation of that along with the current basil ruleset and policy list.

Okand37 · Post by **Okand37** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:49 am #193254

Our rules are the same, but generally enforced more to encourage a higher roleplay standard. I haven't heard anything about high roleplay, but basil strives for a medium roleplay standard but equals around low and above.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:54 am #193256

Okand37 wrote:Our rules are the same, but generally enforced more to encourage a higher roleplay standard. I haven't heard anything about high roleplay, but basil strives for a medium roleplay standard but equals around low and above.

That's incredibly vague.

How can you "enforce more", you enforce when a rule is broken you can't enforce it more if people don't actually break the rules. This is why I'm asking for an actual ruleset.

It seems like high RP to me just judging by my last few rounds. Being screamed at because I didn't RP while killing rival gang members is kinda borderline idiocy outside of High RP.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:12 am #193263

The fact of the matter is that not everything needs to be set in perfectly codified rules, and in my experience doing so only leads to shitty rules lawyering and people complaining about rules bloat. Basil admins have been doing a really good job of pushing the server to a more fun direction, and there seems to be less play2win powergame validhunting shittery. If the need for everything to be set in stone is so strong for you, then as Kor said no one is going to make you play there. Similarily while people might yell at you about your playstyle you are probably not going to get banned for any reason that would not net you a ban on server 1

tl:dr who fucking cares

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:14 am #193264

Oh wait my bad this isn't in the cuck shed, yet.

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:21 am #193268

There is a rather large difference between wanting everything set in stone and wanting to be informed about the rules of the playing environment.

If any kind of playstyle is enforced by rules then they need to be communicated clearly to the players.

Inb4 want to toe the line. Again there is a difference between that and wanting to be adequately informed.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 2:29 am #193270

I dont know what to tell you man. A shitload of people manage playing there just fine and enjoy it.

Not-Dorsidarf · Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:53 am

Difference between sybil and basil.

On sybil you play to win spacemens hooray greentext meme time

On basil you play as a spacemens hooray we're all murderhobos rp time

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:13 pm #193340

Wyzack wrote:I dont know what to tell you man. A shitload of people manage playing there just fine and enjoy it.

Why does everyone keep saying this like it's relevant.

If you operate two different servers you need to clearly define the differences in the policies and rulesets. People playing on the server need to know ahead of time what is and isn't allowed, Not just blindly let people walk into bans because they just assumed both servers share the same ruleset.

I mean how fucking vague is "We enforce more to create the right playstyle". That is literally just a license for any admin to just ban outright on basil because "They didn't like their playstyle".

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:26 pm #193344

Here you go, i've provided a handy chart for your reference.

peoplearestrange · Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:49 pm

Things like powergaming, greytiding and valid hunting (and all those other meme words), while generally disallowed or frowned upon, on sybil you probably would get away with, unless you out and out grief.
Where as on Basil admins will probably call you up on it. It probably wouldnt result in anything banable (unless you kept pushing it over and over), but more likely a bwoink to say "hey, we dont do that around here, please stop or change servers".

Would that be a clearer response?

Bawhoppennn · Post by **Bawhoppennn** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:19 pm #193354

Okay sorry I didn't get to fully elaborate earlier cause I had to go cause I don't spend my entire life devoted to spacemans, anyways,
The term "High RP" doesn't really make sense. I assume when you say HighRP you mean RP like bay or paradise (I'd dispute that classification, but I digress)
Basil's RP is not like Bay's RP. Bay's RP is where you RP like you're actually a human being in real life on that space station, while that is not the case on EITHER /tg/ server.
Basil's RP is a different mixture of various tendencies and playstyle, which is definitely different than Sybil, which has been made clear by players, admins, and is essentially being enforced.
Also your autism sperg in OOC about this was quite hilarious.

peoplearestrange · Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:03 pm

Bawhoppennn wrote:Okay sorry I didn't get to fully elaborate earlier cause I had to go cause I don't spend my entire life devoted to spacemans, anyways,
The term "High RP" doesn't really make sense. I assume when you say HighRP you mean RP like bay or paradise (I'd dispute that classification, but I digress)
Basil's RP is not like Bay's RP. Bay's RP is where you RP like you're actually a human being in real life on that space station, while that is not the case on EITHER /tg/ server.
Basil's RP is a different mixture of various tendencies and playstyle, which is definitely different than Sybil, which has been made clear by players, admins, and is essentially being enforced.
Also your autism sperg in OOC about this was quite hilarious.

In other words, Basils interactions tend to be text and character based, where as sybils tend to be more game mechanics and expected reactions to situations (or meta knowledge).

Both servers require interaction and characters to be made, and neither require you to think how you would react to a situation IRL. Both servers have adequate leeway for shenanigans and sillyness, but basils tomfoolery often comes through dialogue and character interactions, sybils comes through playstyle, game mechanics and general memeness that is ss13 we all know and love.

onleavedontatme · Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:51 pm

Basil has different players.

Basil has different admins.

Basil even had their own pseudo headmin this term.

These people have their own culture/playstyle/interpretation of the rules (which are, by the way, quite vague as written, even on Sybil, such as "Don't be a dick." It's very possible for them to enforce rules "more" or less than we do).

Yes, basil players and admins are going to react differently than sybil players do. No, I'm not gonna go tell them they're having their fun wrong and to play our way, despite me not enjoying it personally.

Post by **oranges** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:12 pm #193517

You do understand that this will cause friction at some point due to the shared bans right?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:15 pm #193519

oranges wrote:You do understand that this will cause friction at some point due to the shared bans right?

If you somehow fuck up on Sybil, you're probably better off not attempting the same thing on Basil.

If you fuck up on Basil, why the hell were you even there in the first place if you want to act like you're on Sybil?

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:20 pm #193520

I have never seen someone catch a ban on basil that would not have also been banned on sybil

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 3:39 am #193596

Generally I've only had to hand out bans if a player has a consistent track record, they're unrepentant or have a flagrant disrespect for the rules/other players/Administrators (I remember one player tell a fellow admin something along the lines of "I don't have to listen to a Trialmin"). Or they do something as blatant as loose the singulo or release plasma as non-antag in such a way that it is impossible for it to have been ignorance.

Basically, if you can get banned for it on Basil then you would be banned for it on Sybil. I generally assume ignorance before malice due to most of the playerbase coming from the Hub.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:11 pm #193783

As was explained to me, it isn't so much that Basil has more RP but that it is more hugboх. IC conflicts that are not related to round antag is highly discouraged, and in a way, the server becomes less RP for this. My personal experiences confirm this. So I really don't buy the "Basil is higher RP, more interaction" argument, when I've found just the opposite. Might have something to do with the fact that Basil is full of unrobust pubbies, who know they're unrobust, that tend to adminhelp at the first sign of trouble while sitting idly IC (not IC interaction or RP) rather than trying to resolve things on their own (IC interaction and RP).

So in short, a hugboх. And I'm willing to bet this thread was made because this exact situation happened to Torn.

Whether this or the fact that we have 2 server cultures under one (split?) administration is a good thing or not I don't really care, but I think this should definitely be made known to Sybil players. Which is a moot point since this thread already accomplishes that, and there isn't a really good place on the wiki to really explain such a thing.

So just stick to Sybil.

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:16 pm #193799

oh look its another "i dont know what im talking about but im going to pretend i do by spouting buzzwords" episode.

iamgoofball · Post by **iamgoofball** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:20 pm #193801

oranges wrote:You do understand that this will cause friction at some point due to the shared bans right?

Yeah. Separate rhe bans or keep the rules the same.

ColonicAcid · Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:07 pm

But the rule of "don't be a dick" still applies???

majority of players are dicks???

remove them???

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:16 pm #193811

Jesus goof read the fucking thread. The rules are the fucking same, no one has been banned for anything on basil that they would not have been banned for on sybil

Also pigeon it sounds like u mite b shit m8, I see lots of nonantag conflict happen. It is just that some people do not always use violence as a first resort, and interesting shenanigans happen because of it

ohnopigeons · Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:49 pm

I have greytided, acted like a shit, and randomly attacked people on Basil. No one cared, no bwoinks, no nuffin.

I have also performed actions that were done in the best interest of the station with reasonable RP and legitimate IC justifications, which has led multiple times to me being yelled at by admins, intense interrogation/arguing, and administratively being acted upon.

Basil being "Higher RP" is a fucking joke, a bad meme, and a bad PR and euphemism attempt to cover up the word you all really mean is hugboх, but are too ashamed to admit it.

I actually like RP and would like to see more of it, so don't call Basil "Higher RP".

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:33 pm #193824

Should I be taking this as an admission of guilt and remove you now or what?

ohnopigeons · Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:57 pm

I don't know, you're the admin, you tell me. Guilty of what even?

Post by **NikNakFlak** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 12:02 am #193829

I feel like ohnopidgeons is referencing a situation where they got bwoinked, brought it up in supportbus and the decision against them wasn't refuted even with full logs provided.
They forever dislike basil now because of it.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:30 am #193852

That was one of the situations, yes.
It was resolved, and probably not in the way you understand it to have been.

The issue isn't Basil, if people wanna play like that fine, but don't fucking call it "Higher RP" because I find that to be quite ridiculous, to the point of insulting.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:40 am #193853

No one ever called it high RP, just medium. Also if you don't like it bro, we will be happy to not play with you

Tornadium · Post by **Tornadium** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:42 am #193854

The sperg certainly demonstrates that the community there considers itself to be serious high rp. It really is just shitty hugbox ooc bitching though.

ohnopigeons · Post by **ohnopigeons** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 1:47 am #193855

I said higher. Notice that the word 'high' is in its comparative form. Medium is higher than low/no rp. Which implies that there is a decent attempt and amounts of roleplay, enforced by admins and/or by the playerbase themselves.

This is not the case on Basil.

Okand37 · Post by **Okand37** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:18 am #193886

You might not play a lot, but with what we have we do enforce and encourage 'low to medium' roleplay standards, and it has started to shift in that direction slowly.

Not-Dorsidarf · Fri Jul 08, 2016 6:59 am

On basil you might be told "Cut it out" if you're being a shitmongler, even if on sybil you wouldnt get a boink, but I seriously doubt you could be banned for anything on Bagil that wouldn't get you trashed on sybil too

peoplearestrange · Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:06 am

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:On basil you might be told "Cut it out" if you're being a shitmongler, even if on sybil you wouldnt get a boink, but I seriously doubt you could be banned for anything on Bagil that wouldn't get you trashed on sybil too

This.
The idea is not to ban anyone but shitlers that would normally get banned on either. The idea is to shape people into WANTING to play with more interaction and RP. OR we suggest that sybil maybe more there play style. I've seen people switch over before and I've also seen people adjust.
I have yet, to date, seen anyone perma/long term banned for anything that wasn't in the /tg/station ruleset.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:43 am #194732

You do understand that this will cause friction at some point due to the shared bans right?

Docprofsmith · Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:03 am

oranges wrote:
You do understand that this will cause friction at some point due to the shared bans right?

A shitter on one server's a shitter on the other oranges. They can be as salty as they want.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:15 am #194736

Allow me to all caps for you oranges because you seem really fucking dense on the topic.

NOTHING YOU DO ON BASIL WILL NET YOU A BAN THAT WOULD NOT OTHERWISE OCCUR ON SYBIL. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW THAT THE LETTERS ARE BIG?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:23 am #194739

roleplaying is a meme

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:45 am #194809

Wyzack wrote:Allow me to all caps for you oranges because you seem really fucking dense on the topic.

NOTHING YOU DO ON BASIL WILL NET YOU A BAN THAT WOULD NOT OTHERWISE OCCUR ON SYBIL. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW THAT THE LETTERS ARE BIG?

Okand37 wrote:Our rules are the same, but generally enforced more to encourage a higher roleplay standard. I haven't heard anything about high roleplay, but basil strives for a medium roleplay standard but equals around low and above.

So which is it?

Bawhoppennn · Post by **Bawhoppennn** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:35 pm #194842

Why are people still not understanding the point that it isn't HighRP, or even MedRP (which are terms that are inherently bad for reasons unrelated), but as I said is it's own RP and playstyle, don't try to relate it to Bay or other servers.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Jul 11, 2016 1:38 pm #194843

Admins will encourage certain behaviors by talking to people in pms and stuff, like adults. Not everything has to end in bans

peoplearestrange · Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:27 pm

Enforcement doesn't have to mean bans.
The idea we hold basil to RP RP standards doesnt mean that you'd get banned on Basil for something that would be absolutely fine on Sybil, thats simply not what is happening or should happen.

Does that make sense, or are you somehow intrinsically opposed to the idea of two slightly differing servers under the same generalise rules, same admins and same code? Don't lets now make absolute separation, we don't need another NT station.

Screemonster · Mon Jul 11, 2016 5:06 pm

Something that's technically banworthy might get a pass on sybil for a number of reasons, not least of which being that the degree of chaos is such that misbehaviour is more likely to get noticed on a slower-paced server.
That and an admin might think "okay, I should probably bwoink him for that but I'll let it slide if the other guy doesn't ahelp it because holy fuck my sides".

peoplearestrange · Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:36 pm

Example of a ban like this or a situation?

Post by **Atlanta-Ned** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 6:26 pm #195597

peoplearestrange wrote:Example of a ban like this or a situation?

HoP getting bribed for all access?

Saegrimr · Post by **Saegrimr** » Thu Jul 14, 2016 11:10 pm #195676

Atlanta-Ned wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:Example of a ban like this or a situation?
HoP getting bribed for all access?

That sounds like higher RP than i'd expect to see on Sybil, which would be smash the window and take all-access. Whats the problem?

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Atlanta-Ned wrote:
peoplearestrange wrote:Example of a ban like this or a situation?
HoP getting bribed for all access?

Why would an admin ban someone for that, christ.