[Bob Dobbington] darwin wins, flawless victory

[IcePacks]

Byond account and character name: IcePacks, Bryce Pax
Banning admin: Bob Dobbington
Ban type (What are you banned from?): the game, the belief that /tg/ players are anything but a herd of drooling morons
Ban reason and length: killing a group of dumb-dumbs as an unintended consequence of self-mutilation, a day
Time ban was placed (including time zone): around 5:30 UTC
Your side of the story: I did not kill jack shit. This is a bunch of truly awful players committing assisted suicide.
Why you think you should be unbanned: i promise i will always consider how people can use my death to kill themselves in the future

[Pilgrim]

It's a one day ban

[oranges]

The length of a ban has no bearing on how bad or good it is.

[IcePacks]

It's a one day ban

it's true that i will be asleep and work for about seventeen for those hours

but this is a colossally stupid ban and i have time to kill and nobody to hang out with

[Saegrimr]

Don't fucking welderbomb, idiot.

[IcePacks]

the fix was floating on top of the problem

anyone with an empty hand and an un-empty skull could have simply patched the floor

or better yet, not disarmed me when i tried to patch the floor

or, not quite as good, but still viable, put on an oxygen rig

or, i guess, avoided the room

i can get consequences for your actions (i did blow off the mime's leg), but intentionally throwing yourself at a big scary 1x1 hole with a floor tile on top and a lattice underneath is not my problem, especially not if you somehow do it twice

[Saegrimr]

Or you know.

Don't welderbomb in the first place, idiot.

[Bob Dobbington]

This was my ban, not Bgo's. I dunno why she's listed.
This seems basically like an open and shut case. Pax blew a welderbomb in a small, heavily trafficked area, resulting in the deaths of several (admittedly retarded) crewmembers. I banned him for a day. It seemed fairly lenient to me. I'm an AdminCandidate, I would welcome full admin and headmin review of this appeal.

[IcePacks]

it was me and the mime, not heavily trafficked

the mime losing his leg was my fault, that's on me, i had some modicum of control over that

everything that came after was everyone trying really hard to die and then ahelping because tank bad make bad hole how fix

[Shaps-cloud]

Was the mime the only one who was directly affected by the bombing? While blowing up the mime along with you was in poor taste, given that it didn't kill them and indeed they stood back up and retaliated against you, I'd say it was just a source of IC conflict between the two of them that didn't need admin intervention. As for the people who walked by and got killed by a 1x1 tile of space, they went way above and beyond in their efforts to get themselves killed, so I wouldn't worry about them

I'd say lift the ban since he hadn't tried to murder anyone and I doubt it inconvenienced anyone for more than two minutes

[onleavedontatme]

I wonder what terrible things happened in Saeg's past to make him hate welderbombs so much.

[Shaps-cloud]

Welderbombs can be bad and are usually worth peeking at when they happen, but the incident here was pretty isolated

[Saegrimr]

I wonder what terrible things happened in Saeg's past to make him hate welderbombs so much.

I just don't understand "I don't feel like playing in the round, time to break shit and cause other people as much trouble as possible while not having to stick around to deal with the aftermath!"

[IcePacks]

>i'm going to blow myself up
>but i'm going to give everyone a head start and an ample warning first

translates to

>i'm a complete griffon jerkass
>the bit where i yelled and stood in front of a tank with a lit welder was a little brain fart and suggests i didn't ever think to clear the area

[Saegrimr]

Or you can throw yourself out of an airlock and not have to deal with the responsibility of blowing shit up.

[IcePacks]

i'm no more culpable for this than the mime who shoved me over as i was fixing the hole i made, nor the people who opened the airlock ran in, and did nothing but try to walk away from said hole (which was clearly not working)

plenty of similar scenarios exist; perhaps you can start bitching about those as well, since mine is significantly less malignant towards the game and my fellow players

[Bob Dobbington]

Since there's no consensus ITT on whether or not to revert this, I'm leaving it. Any trialmin, full admin, or headmin is higher ranked than I am and can remove the ban, but then you're the one responsible for signing off on nonantag welderbombing.

[Saegrimr]

The length of a ban has no bearing on how bad or good it is.

Sure it does.

i'm no more culpable for this than the mime who shoved me over as i was fixing the hole i made,

So a guy welderbombs you, you're deaf and on the verge of death. What do you do? "I'm going to die so I might as well try and take my killer down with me" right?
Your notes sure show that this is something you'd likely do.

plenty of similar scenarios exist; perhaps you can start bitching about those as well, since mine is significantly less malignant towards the game and my fellow players

Really? Show me the similar scenarios where people are blowing shit up and breaching the hull because they didn't roll antag and want to do one last antaggy thing and not have to stick around for problems it causes afterwards.

The 6 other people may be retarded, but they're a good example on why you don't just blow shit up for no reason. There are so many options you could have taken to remove yourself out of the round that doesn't involve blowing yourself up and taking a mime out with you, because:

>mime in the doorway
>whatever it's just a mime

lolwhatever i'll just bomb a mime who cares

[Hibbles]

All I did was set people on fire The way to stop that is obvious, so it's not my fault if people died

pax stop literally this instant

[IcePacks]

why do i even argue with you

seeing eye-to-eye with you is hopeless, which is probably far more frustrating for me than it has ever been for you

The length of a ban has no bearing on how bad or good it is.
Sure it does.

i made this two hours after the ban

there are still 22 hours in the ban, and as previously state it's a dumb ban and i'd make an effort to have it removed from my notes regardless

i'm no more culpable for this than the mime who shoved me over as i was fixing the hole i made,

So a guy welderbombs you, you're deaf and on the verge of death. What do you do? "I'm going to die so I might as well try and take my killer down with me" right?
Your notes sure show that this is something you'd likely do.

i'd patch the hole, as indicated by my efforts to patch the hole

/tg/'s response was to throw themselves at me, long after i expired, and then at the hole, with a hardsuited engineer (who could've danced in said hole for about an hour, but wouldn't, as that would be an in-character action) ignoring the whole stack of floortiles that could make it look good as new

plenty of similar scenarios exist; perhaps you can start bitching about those as well, since mine is significantly less malignant towards the game and my fellow players

Really? Show me the similar scenarios where people are blowing shit up and breaching the hull because they didn't roll antag and want to do one last antaggy thing and not have to stick around for problems it causes afterwards.

my banning admin's actually really bad about fucking up the entire station with max potency slips, not so much anymore i guess

that's killed way more people trying far harder to survive and i don't believe dobbington's ever been banned for it, as an added bonus, he doesn't have you wedged up his asshole either

The 6 other people may be retarded, but they're a good example on why you don't just blow shit up for no reason. There are so many options you could have taken to remove yourself out of the round that doesn't involve blowing yourself up and taking a mime out with you, because:

>mime in the doorway
>whatever it's just a mime

lolwhatever i'll just bomb a mime who cares

the mime was in the doorway

the tank is in the corner opposite the doorway

this is not dragging it up to the mime and blowing it on him, which is why i do feel responsible for de-limbing him

i did not intend for any of this to happen, and punishing me for other players making it far, far worse

hibbles: read the thread or go away

[oranges]

The length of a ban has no bearing on how bad or good it is.

Sure it does.

I don't really understand your reasoning?

Say you banned me for 2 hours for no reason at all (hypothetical)
It may only be 2 hours long, but it's still a bad ban because it's got no justification.

Now it would be silly for me to appeal the ban after it already expired, and would be better to be an admin complaint, but that's not true in this case.

edit: I don't think we should discuss this too much in someones ban appeal, so perhaps move the comments to a policy thread?

[ohnopigeons]

Since Pax's general playstyle and behavior has started being called into question, I would just like to remark that he and his (suicide) antics occupy a disproportionate share of my enjoyment of the game and the reasons why I keep playing. He is usually very good at keeping his antics isolated and minor, and this case seems no different. Some would call his behavior line-toeing, to me it's understanding the difference between rough fun and malicious griefing, in this case at the very least, especially as he even made an attempt to patch up the 1x1 hole.

[John_Oxford]

-snip-
i didnt necro a ban that was already passed i promise.
pls no ban.

[J_Madison]

Since Pax's general playstyle and behavior has started being called into question, I would just like to remark that he and his (suicide) antics occupy a disproportionate share of my enjoyment of the game and the reasons why I keep playing. He is usually very good at keeping his antics isolated and minor, and this case seems no different. Some would call his behavior line-toeing, to me it's understanding the difference between rough fun and malicious griefing, in this case at the very least, especially as he even made an attempt to patch up the 1x1 hole.

Static name characters does not offer exceptions or reductions to bans or mutes.

[ohnopigeons]

[incomprehensible sentence]

Run that by me again. If I'm reading this right I don't see how it relates to my comment.

[Saegrimr]

[incomprehensible sentence]

Run that by me again. If I'm reading this right I don't see how it relates to my comment.

"It's okay when someone I like does it"

[ohnopigeons]

Since Pax's general playstyle and behavior has started being called into question

[firecage]

Was the mime the only one who was directly affected by the bombing? While blowing up the mime along with you was in poor taste, given that it didn't kill them and indeed they stood back up and retaliated against you, I'd say it was just a source of IC conflict between the two of them that didn't need admin intervention. As for the people who walked by and got killed by a 1x1 tile of space, they went way above and beyond in their efforts to get themselves killed, so I wouldn't worry about them

I'd say lift the ban since he hadn't tried to murder anyone and I doubt it inconvenienced anyone for more than two minutes

As a side note, while everyone is a drooling mindless idiot, unless atmos set up atmos to pump out even more air, for some reason even a 1x1 hole can get a lot of people killed merely due to it for some reason now being enough to quickly supercool, depressurize, and de....oxyginize? the hallways, or whatever, which does kind of make even a small hull breach in a heavy traffic area fairly bad.

[J_Madison]

[incomprehensible sentence]

Run that by me again. If I'm reading this right I don't see how it relates to my comment.

An established IC character with a static name (stays the same for multiple rounds) is not an excuse nor does it mitigate any fault from breaking the rules.

I.E if your IC character is a Pyromaniac, it is not excusable to set places on fire as non-antag simply because your character IC is a Pyromaniac. So on so forth.

Your sentence came across as you mitigating and downplaying his rule breaking because of his IC character.

[ohnopigeons]

An established IC character with a static name (stays the same for multiple rounds) is not an excuse nor does it mitigate any fault from breaking the rules.

I.E if your IC character is a Pyromaniac, it is not excusable to set places on fire as non-antag simply because your character IC is a Pyromaniac. So on so forth.

Your sentence came across as you mitigating and downplaying his rule breaking because of his IC character.

Then let me try this again.

Since Pax's general playstyle and behavior has started being called into question

The established IC character does not matter, I was referring purely to his OOC behavior. Whether it be static or dynamic character name.

even a 1x1 hole can get a lot of people killed merely due to it for some reason now being enough to quickly supercool, depressurize, and de....oxyginize

Wrong, this bug was fixed weeks ago. You should have known that.
https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/17868

[Tornadium]

Wait I'm confused,

Can I get day banned if I for example break a window that leads to like 6 people dying from electrocution or suffocation?

[IrishWristWatch0]

Wait I'm confused,

Can I get day banned if I for example break a window that leads to like 6 people dying from electrocution or suffocation?

Depends. Di you go and create that shockable window in the middle of a hallway? IF your answer is yes then you probably would eat a ban

[IcePacks]

as little as i want to continue a dumb debate, it was not in a hallway, nor was the area high-traffic; it was auxiliary storage with the mime in the doorway and a moron outside

the mime lost a leg, which was shitty, but other than that nobody was hurt in the initial explosion

[lzimann]

Gonna resolve this in 24hours. Unless a headmin wants to weight in, we are done here.

[peoplearestrange]

Wait I'm confused,

Can I get day banned if I for example break a window that leads to like 6 people dying from electrocution or suffocation?

This falls under the whole dick move thing. For example, if you blew up a small bomb near the bar, but no one was around, no one got hurt except you, it would STILL be a dick move, that area is a high traffic area. (obviously traitor status negates this but thats not this situation).

HOWEVER this seemed to be a small, out of the way area, though you did hurt someone, I'd say it was verge on the dick, but mostly its IC.
BUT equally, given that you were using it as a "way out to stop playing", kinda makes you more of a dick for not doing what any sane person would do and just go brain dead.

All in all, a note and a warning would have been enough, the day ban was probably a little excessive, but ultimately just suck it up like you expect other people to suck up dying to stupidity.

[Bob Dobbington]

My working assumption throughout all this has been that Pax does in fact know that blowing a hole in the station as nonantag is frowned upon, so a note doesn't make as much sense as it would for a new player who had never welderbombed before. Pax and welderbombs have a long, storied history. In any event this ban expired days ago, so there's no point keeping the appeal open. Policy Discussion has an open thread about station damage FNR that would be relevant to this, if further discussion is wanted.