Secborg replacement: Peacekeeper Borg [PR now up]

[Luke Cox]

After the recent test, secborgs have been removed. Many people saw them as OP and game-breaking, but I feel like their removal has left a void that should be filled. Here's my proposal: the Peacekeeper borg. Unlike the secborg that was made to do security's job, this borg is designed strictly with conflict prevention and resolution in mind. As such, it has absolutely no hard stuns or restraints.

Items include

• Energy bola launcher - For slowing down harmful individuals so that their targets can escape
• Flash - To make people drop their weapons. Blinds when hacked.
• Sedative injector - For when people get a little too unruly. Injects a non-harmful dose of a chemical that makes the subject dizzy and off-balance. Injects chloral or another toxin when hacked.
• Energy barrier - Deploys a shield wall where the borg is standing in order to block energy projectile fire only. Electrocutes on contact when hacked.
• Cookie dispenser - Sometimes people just need something to brighten their day. Poisoned when hacked.
• HARM ALARM! - Functions like the ling's shriek, but weaker. Notifies the AI when used. Deafens when hacked.

Appearance: Lots of round shapes, padded chaises. No points or corners. Light pink and/or soft blue colors.

PR is up here: https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/17355

[Zilenan91]

no

[Luke Cox]

My logic behind this is that none of the current borgs are able to adequately stop conflicts or deal with harmful individuals. The secborg originally occupied this role, but it encouraged players to ignore asimov and play police instead. If we can design a replacement that is explicitly designed with enforcing law 1, it can work.

[DanielRatherman]

After the recent test, secborgs have been removed. Many people saw them as OP and game-breaking, but I feel like their removal has left a void that should be filled. Here's my proposal: the Peacekeeper borg. Unlike the secborg that was made to do security's job, this borg is designed strictly with conflict prevention and resolution in mind. As such, it has absolutely no hard stuns or restraints.

Items include

• Energy bola launcher - For slowing down harmful individuals so that their targets can escape
• Flash - To make people drop their weapons
• Sedative injector - For when people get a little too unruly. Injects a non-harmful dose of a chemical that makes the subject dizzy and off-balance
• Energy barrier - Deploys a shield wall where the borg is standing in order to block projectile fire
• Cookie dispenser - Sometimes people just need something to brighten their day

Could be fun for a test at least. Makes it less of a valid-salad machine and more of an Asimov enforcement machine like it's supposed to be.

Also has some interesting possibilities for an emagged version.

-sedative turns into chloral.
-energy barrier harms people who run into it somehow.
-poisoned cookies.

[PKPenguin321]

>-sedative turns into chloral
Service borg already gets this sorta

[Luke Cox]

It could be any toxin really. I feel like this borg opens up a lot of fun possibilities, both on the protag and antag sides of things.

[Incomptinence]

no

Pretty robotic response there.

Seems like a good idea at least gives ways to reduce harm potential if not stop it outright.

[DemonFiren]

Give them the ability to, at high energy cost, sound a horrifyingly noisy HARM ALARM! that stuns anything in range without ear protection.

[PKPenguin321]

Give them the ability to, at high energy cost, sound a horrifyingly noisy HARM ALARM! that stuns anything in range without ear protection.

The final evolution of the silicon: Literal Harmyeller

[Kelenius]

And for the fuck's sake, don't make them red.

[Steelpoint]

So basically Secborg 2.0 with less effective alternatives of their original equipment?

Coming in Brown colour schemes.

[Luke Cox]

Give them the ability to, at high energy cost, sound a horrifyingly noisy HARM ALARM! that stuns anything in range without ear protection.

I like this, adding it to the OP. It can function like the ling's shriek.

So basically Secborg 2.0 with less effective alternatives of their original equipment?

Coming in Brown colour schemes.

And for the fuck's sake, don't make them red.

I imagine them looking like Law 1 zealots incarnate. They should look really obnoxious and stupid. No points or sharp corners, padded sides, "calming" color like light pink and/or baby blue.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Should fart clouds of peace gas that makes people giggle and unable to punch dudes.

[Davidchan]

I still don't understand the sudden need to remove the Secborg from the game, they've been in for years and are the most unchanged borg since their inception, yet people suddenly want them gone? Do we just need to add laser pointers to the Autolathes? I know miners can buy them but miners aren't big on sharing their brute first aid kits that are a dime a dozen.

[Steelpoint]

People have been wanting to remove Security Cyborgs for a long time.

Not to mention many other prominent servers removed Security Cyborgs a long time ago.

[Jacquerel]

Honestly even changing their name from "Security Cyborg" to reinforce the idea that they are supposed to enforce their own laws and not space law would probably be a big help

[DanielRatherman]

They should come in AI-floor blue and white. UN colors and be- as mentioned before, without sharp corners or obvious signs of being intended for combat.

I mean- logically any Asimov unit should NEVER be utilized for military or para-military purposes- the lawset makes them far too bicameral regarding any human clusterfuck situation.

"BORG TASE THAT GUY HE'S GOT A GUN"
*tase*
"AGH- BORG TASE THE OFFICER NOW HE HAS A GUN AND I DON'T!"
*tase*
"AGHHHH- AI TASE THAT OTHER RIOTER HE'S PICKING UP THE OTHER GUYS GUN!"

etc, etc.

While kinda funny in principle- players never run them this way, always siding with security mostly I think because they are construed as an extension of the long arm of the law. They should be like the AI- a fairly neutral entity dedicated solely to preventing harm as defined by avoidable human injury. They may well attempt to dissuade both combatants in a fight by annoying them until it's broken up, because arresting someone for tresspassing or even being armed isn't their goal- preventing injury and conflict is. And again- the law 2 ping pong is far less imbalanced without them having fight-ending weapons like stuns or cuffs.

And again- emagged and malf versions becoming more dangerous would make the 'horror transformation from nice peacekeeper to murderbot" that much more horrifying.

[Davidchan]

People have been wanting to remove Security Cyborgs for a long time.

Not to mention many other prominent servers removed Security Cyborgs a long time ago.

Other servers such as? /tg/ is the first and only server I play on regularly that removed the Secborg without removing all cyborgs.

[TheWiznard]

In a way I'm glad secborgs are gone. Cyborg is one of my main roles and to be quite honest; secborg is no fun to play or play against. Pretty much you're riding the thin line that is an admin's tolerance of how much shit they can put up with. With how adamant people in the forums are about all cyborgs ***cough***zilnean***cough*** I would rather lose one module that I find rather unfun then losing all of them. Just deal with the secborg being gone, it's for the better and I feel that If people keep pressing about it someone is going to remove all of them.

Also I'm always in support of more Borg modules and upgrades.

[Jacough]

Maybe give them their own set of laws that discourage them from acting as security? I'm thinking a law set that strictly prohibits them from interfering with security when they step in but requires them to settle petty matters between crew mates with as little force as possible. The idea being that they try to encourage the unruly crew members tojust hug shit out first rather than immediately resorting to "BEEP BOOP BEEP LAW 1 UNLOAD DISABLERS INDISCRIMINATELY. STUN AND CUFF EVERYONE BEEP".

At the same time though if they can't convince the assholes to stop hurting eachother they are allowed to try to disarm and seperate them while alerting security as necessary

[Zilenan91]

Adamant about cyborgs? Cyborgs are fine, they all have their dedicated role and almost never feel unfair or unfun in any fashion. Except secborgs, secborgs have just been overpowered for the longest time and aren't fun to deal with.

[Luke Cox]

Would anybody be willing to give spriting this a go? Most of the items are already in the game, and the ones that aren't are pretty easy to implement.

[Luke Cox]

Yeah, something like being drunk. No stuns, but you stumble around. I'm going to put in a request in the sprite request thread, see if I can get somebody to sprite this.

[DanielRatherman]

Yeah, something like being drunk. No stuns, but you stumble around. I'm going to put in a request in the sprite request thread, see if I can get somebody to sprite this.

Tried my hand at it. Designed it to look rounded, fairly harmless, and friendly to the crew- kind of the nice side of Asimov incarnated. More like a mental hospital orderly (which it's job strongly resembles) than a military machine. Also a bit Buddha like on accident.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Yeah, something like being drunk. No stuns, but you stumble around. I'm going to put in a request in the sprite request thread, see if I can get somebody to sprite this.

Tried my hand at it. Designed it to look rounded, fairly harmless, and friendly to the crew- kind of the nice side of Asimov incarnated. More like a mental hospital orderly (which it's job strongly resembles) than a military machine. Also a bit Buddha like on accident.

i love it

[Luke Cox]

Absolutely fucking brilliant. We'll need sprites for the side and back but you nailed the concept. Is anybody willing to work on this for serious?

[Shaps-cloud]

Yeah, something like being drunk. No stuns, but you stumble around. I'm going to put in a request in the sprite request thread, see if I can get somebody to sprite this.

Tried my hand at it. Designed it to look rounded, fairly harmless, and friendly to the crew- kind of the nice side of Asimov incarnated. More like a mental hospital orderly (which it's job strongly resembles) than a military machine. Also a bit Buddha like on accident.

jesus christ

just imagine that thing dragging you into a plasma fire while giggling insanely to itself and looking directly into your eyes

[DanielRatherman]

Yeah, something like being drunk. No stuns, but you stumble around. I'm going to put in a request in the sprite request thread, see if I can get somebody to sprite this.

Tried my hand at it. Designed it to look rounded, fairly harmless, and friendly to the crew- kind of the nice side of Asimov incarnated. More like a mental hospital orderly (which it's job strongly resembles) than a military machine. Also a bit Buddha like on accident.

jesus christ

just imagine that thing dragging you into a plasma fire while giggling insanely to itself and looking directly into your eyes

This is also a good thing.

"YOU'VE BEEN A VERY NAUGHTY ASSISTANT"

[Luke Cox]

As far as actually implementing this goes, it's pretty simple:

• Energy bola launcher - Dragnet launcher that slows down less, mostly exists
• Flash - Item already exists
• Sedative injector - Item already exists, just have to settle on which chemical to use
• Energy barrier - Like holobarriers but able to block projectiles, mostly exists
• Cookie dispenser - Item already exists
• HARM ALARM! - Ling shriek, already exists

[Aloraydrel]

This is a bad meme

[DanielRatherman]

Got the side and backsprites done.

[Luke Cox]

Sweet. It's times like this when I wish I knew how to code.

[yackemflam]

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the standard cyborg module have a stun baton?
Oh wait, I'm the only one who plays that module,
stun baton + esword ftw
Don't bring back sec borg, if they want to play peace keeper, play standard and drag the harmful ones away.

[Luke Cox]

In that case, remove the stun baton from standard, maybe give it an item from this

[Zilenan91]

The stunbaton on standard is fine because it takes a ridiculous amount of charge to use.

[ShadowDimentio]

I knew the people who got Secborg removed were hugbabies but this

This is just a bad meme

[PKPenguin321]

Got the side and backsprites done.

jesus fucking christ

[Luke Cox]

I knew the people who got Secborg removed were hugbabies but this

This is just a bad meme

This is the best meme. I was against removing secborgs initially but I can understand why people wanted them go now. As I said in the OP, the role should be filled with something else. Figured I'd take a stab at law 1 zealots while I'm at it. Who says it can't be a tongue-in-cheek. You know you want to play a hacked peacekeeper borg, don't you lie.

Also, peacekeeper borgs should squeak when hit

[cancer_engine]

I really like the idea and the sprites. would love to see this in the game. My only suggestion is that upon choosing a module the player gets a little disclaimer explaining that the module is not supposed to be used offensively.

[DanielRatherman]

I knew the people who got Secborg removed were hugbabies but this

This is just a bad meme

I get exactly what you're talking about if you take it from a "i died pls nerf" perspective but I'll admit fullwell that I've beaten Secborgs in combat and seen them bumrushed, emagged, EMP'd and other such methods and it isn't impossible.

What I insist is that they are not appropriate for the spirit of Asimov AIs. Asimov shouldn't have control over a paramilitary force- he is first and foremost a 'do-no-harm' machine. He is supposed to mitigate conflict not participate in it, and currently by way of secborgs the AI is often 'aggressor-in-chief' during station events. This seems kind of fucky to me.

Again, when emagged, subverted, or malf, the AI should be a terror- but not because he has a million deathbots that were just held back by bureaucratic red tape- but because he can turn the normally helpful and benign assets of the station against the human crew.

I think the other borgs are just fine- stunbatons or some kind of disabler with limited charge is perfectly fine, but a purpose-made military machine is unfitting for a lawset that first and foremost is devoted to being neutrally dedicated to protecting ALL human crew.

I do however think the cringe factor of this literal hugbot replacing the feared secborg is hilarious- and will also make the inevitable brutal murders by said bots fantastic.

[Zilenan91]

I really don't like the sprite for it. It sticks out like a sore thumb aesthetically and just will not look good with everything else.

[Luke Cox]

I designed this as a compromise between the no-secborg camp and the pro-secborg camp. A borg that can actively prevent harm without playing mallcop. In response to cancer_engine's concerns, this borg won't have a secHUD like old secborgs did. They'll have to actually listen to comms and prevent harm regardless of the perpetrator.

[Steelpoint]

Because a Cyborg that can...

• Slow you down with infinite energy bolas
• Infinitely attempt to flash you and
• Injecting you with drugs that further slow you down and generally fuck you over.

Is going to be a great addition. Not to mention the speed, stun invulnerability, door bolting and AI help that a Borg already has.

This will just be annoying.

[yackemflam]

Or, just play standard module borgs.
They have a stun baton, a crowbar, a fire extinguisher, a flash, and a health analyzer. What more do you need as a peace keeper?

[Zilenan91]

Conceptually, the peacekeeper borg seems to be designed around being nothing but annoying and griefy.

[Luke Cox]

Because a Cyborg that can...

• Slow you down with infinite energy bolas
• Infinitely attempt to flash you and
• Injecting you with drugs that further slow you down and generally fuck you over.

Is going to be a great addition. Not to mention the speed, stun invulnerability, door bolting and AI help that a Borg already has.

This will just be annoying.

How is any of this worse than what existing borgs can do? The only thing I can see being an issue are the drugs, and even that depends on which we decide to use

Conceptually, the peacekeeper borg seems to be designed around being nothing but annoying and griefy.

Like law 1 zealots! Seriously, if somebody attempts to fuck with you as a peacekeeper for no good reason, ahelp it. They aren't immune to the rules.

[DanielRatherman]

Because a Cyborg that can...

• Slow you down with infinite energy bolas
• Infinitely attempt to flash you and
• Injecting you with drugs that further slow you down and generally fuck you over.

Is going to be a great addition. Not to mention the speed, stun invulnerability, door bolting and AI help that a Borg already has.

This will just be annoying.

Doesn't Secborg already have that via disablers, which fucks your stamina, making you slow and basically fucked? I mean the core complaint of Secborg is already that they are inescapable stun machines. At least flashes can be ran away from and being slowed really only fucks you if the other combatant is immune to both the flash and stamina drain- or has a gun.

[DanielRatherman]

I really don't like the sprite for it. It sticks out like a sore thumb aesthetically and just will not look good with everything else.

Any particular way to improve it? Are the colors too much- or not contrasted enough?

[Zilenan91]

It's just the whole design, of what looks like some kind of animatronic from FnaF. It clashes so much with the design of the rest of the game, would likely have to be changed completely.

[Steelpoint]

Only difference here is that this Peace Borg has a Disabler that doesn't disable, only slow you down (aka Bolas). In addition to a flash and some sleepy chemical of sorts.

This is simply a bad idea born out of desperation to quickly get a alternative to the security cyborg removal. All this change will do is once again push the narrative of the AI and its Silicon's being primarily about interfering with every harm infraction ever, past of future.

Silicon's should be more concerned about current possible harm and not future or past harm, less future and more past. The security cyborg, and his peacekeeper by extension, simply gives the Silicon's the tools and ability to punish for past and future potential harm.

Keep security of the station to security. If someone is likely to commit harm in the future then get security to deal with it, instead of having two secborgs drag someone kicking and screaming into the brig every other round.