Space Law

[firecage]

Bottom post of the previous page:

HG. Honestly. What is the point of you rushing to do these crap load of things before your headmin term ends? The no AI thing, no Silicon Policy thing, removing Space law. Are you only doing it since you are hoping to get re-elected or something? And holy fuck are you doing to leave a bunch of hate and badly-done stuff at the next headmins feet.

[TechnoAlchemist]

He is reelected

[firecage]

Fuuuuuck

[Steelpoint]

Space Law was put back by someone a while ago but I'm betting it'll be gone, and the person banned, by the end of the day.

E: Scratch that, someone just made a new page called "Space law" instead of "Space Law". Nothing's changed.

[oranges]

Can people quit edit warring with the headmins please? I get you don't like it but edit warring doesn't help.

[Bluespace]

Space Law was fairly dumb tbh and i'm glad it's gone.

[kosmos]

Can people quit edit warring with the headmins please? I get you don't like it but edit warring doesn't help.

HG is not a headmin according to the admins-page, he's just a wiki admin and a game master, which is why I took action in the first place.

Plus Lollerderby, the headmin supposedly behind this decision has told us zero arguments why Space Law -page should be removed. The page is an influential page, is referenced a lot, and should be at least talked about in the forums or modified before just outright removing it.

[Lumbermancer]

Space Law was fairly dumb tbh and i'm glad it's gone.

Explain your opinions.

[starmute]

Space Law was fairly dumb tbh and i'm glad it's gone.

Explain your opinions.

Bluespace is entitled to his onions

Even if they are odd onions.

[Bluespace]

Space Law was fairly dumb tbh and i'm glad it's gone.

Explain your opinions.

1)It was barely actually followed unless robust regular security players were on.
2)It was overly harsh on stuff. If someone steals yella glubs to hack a machine, just take the gloves, don't brig them for 5 minutes.
3)Security policy is basically "stay to timers under 10 minutes and don't be a cunt", space law just complicated that.
4)Space law was always a guideline, and often resulted in arguments with officers.

[captain sawrge]

Brig sentences should be harsh. The entire point is to discourage people from committing crimes in the first place. Trying to force lenient security just leads to more situations necessitating OOC intervention.

[Incomptinence]

2)It was overly harsh on stuff. If someone steals yella glubs to hack a machine, just take the gloves, don't brig them for 5 minutes.

If you don't want to be "harsh" and end up perma'n the poor sweet criminal you probably don't want to take any items with utility.

The tantrums thrown over yellow gloves, fire axes and barkeep shoties my god.

[nsos]

just remove the lawyer at this point

[FantasticFwoosh]

2)It was overly harsh on stuff. If someone steals yella glubs to hack a machine, just take the gloves, don't brig them for 5 minutes.

If you don't want to be "harsh" and end up perma'n the poor sweet criminal you probably don't want to take any items with utility.

The tantrums thrown over yellow gloves, fire axes and barkeep shoties my god.

The worst part is that those people SHOULDN'T have them in the first place. I make a habit of confiscating and trying to at-least mail them or store them back where they belong when i see greyshirts towing them in the halls like trophies. Gloves are so-so unless you know they greyshirts are going to hack things of importance or have a record of B&A, and axes and shotties are just.

No.(especially with this new sharpening block meta)

Any other kind of makeshift weapon probably issues confiscation or a search for being a over-prepared cuck without good reason.

[Steelpoint]

What's more inane about this is that only Hornygranny has made or done anything on this issue, neither Jordie nor Loller (which HG Claims Loller ""supports"" this change) have made no comments on this matter at all, and I'm inclined to belive Loller's support consisted of a "meh sure" at this point.

Honestly at this moment the headminship consist of one man only I believe.

HG has failed to give any good argument for the removal of Space Law, the only argument he provided held no water when put under a microscope, this fucks over the Lawyer, this makes new sec players have little direction, this screws over down-stream servers who DON'T want to remove Space Law and its removal is something no other server has done before.

[starmute]

What's more inane about this is that only Hornygranny has made or done anything on this issue, neither Jordie nor Loller (which HG Claims Loller ""supports"" this change) have made no comments on this matter at all, and I'm inclined to belive Loller's support consisted of a "meh sure" at this point.

Honestly at this moment the headminship consist of one man only I believe.

HG has failed to give any good argument for the removal of Space Law, the only argument he provided held no water when put under a microscope, this fucks over the Lawyer, this makes new sec players have little direction, this screws over down-stream servers who DON'T want to remove Space Law and its removal is something no other server has done before.

It doesn't matter however because TECHNICALLY he has infinite oversight.

As people are keen to point out, tg isnt' a democracy. This whole discussion is moot unless you have some way to change the way we do things here. One headmin can do whatever they want as long as the other headmins do not object. Currently 36 people (thats what it says) object to this situation, and only 6 think its okay (and thats only a poll).

Unless you suck up to a headmin, and somehow get another headmins to work up the courage to cause drama between the other headmin (which causes issues like we saw with Intigracy vs HBL) then it won't work in our current system. And even if it does work then it might cause issues like it did with HBL and Intigracy.

[Jordie0608]

I've said I don't support the change elsewhere, Lollerderby does support it and HG won't budge on it. There's very limited amount that can be said about this which hasn't been already.

[Lumbermancer]

In that case I shall vote for Malkevin.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Poll is still 36-6 against removal...

There's very limited amount that can be said about this which hasn't been already.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[ShadowDimentio]

Vote for a headmin that'll undo this.

[FantasticFwoosh]

In that case I shall vote for Malkevin.

Im sorry to other candidates but i follow lumbermancers verdict. Space law is too rooted in to just ignore.

If malk can secure it rock solid, he has my vote, the trump ideal seal of approval.

Vote for a headmin that'll undo this.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Our long, national nightmare has come to an end.

Now it's time to get down to the real meat of the issues, like some much needed style changes.

[Cheimon]

Our long, national nightmare has come to an end.

Now it's time to get down to the real meat of the issues, like some much needed style changes.

Well, to make good style changes, we need to have a consensus on what's wrong with it, and what should be different, what the eventual goal of the article is. What are your thoughts on that?

[Atlanta-Ned]

Our long, national nightmare has come to an end.

Now it's time to get down to the real meat of the issues, like some much needed style changes.

Well, to make good style changes, we need to have a consensus on what's wrong with it, and what should be different, what the eventual goal of the article is. What are your thoughts on that?

It looks like we're talking about it here and here.

[Malkevin]

I thought it looked fine, then again I'm naturally heavily biased because I was the one that spent hours being anal getting it to look presentable.

[Puglord]

RIP Lawyer

[Steelpoint]

Space Law is back so yeah.

[WarbossLincoln]

I like space law as it is now, a guideline that's not a server ruleset. I think we could even improve the disclaimer at the top. Maybe big bold all caps that says "SPACE LAW IS NOT A SUBSTITUTE FOR COMMON SENSE". It's a difficult problem I know.

You don't want shitsec so you have to have rules, but you don't want to discourage players from playing sec. Too many rounds where security is just a detective and warden blow. I tend to lean toward security's side a lot of the time. There are some really shitty officers who need OOC intervention, but most of the time it seems like the players are shittier.

One problem I see with this just being guidelines is the procedure for capital crimes. Space Law still says "Only the captain can authorize executions" If these are only guidelines, then what's the point in keeping any part of space law that says something is mandatory? Maybe we need to draft up a new Space Law that is written from the perspective that these are guidelines and not rules.


EDIT: I guess in this case it would all be an IC issue, which I think is much better than bringing admins in. If the captain wants to enforce the capital crime authorization chain of command that's his discretion. He could tell the HOS at the start of the round that All executions have to go through him, etc. That would also leave some choice to the captain. When I'm captain I'd be just fine with the HOS being in charge of executions and leave me out of it unless it's something that affects the whole station, like revs. But a single syndicate traitor who shot up the clown I wouldn't really care how the HOS handles it as long as he does.

[Malkevin]

Thats a bit of a relic from the SoS days where the HoS couldn't execute crims, like at all.

I think it should be changed to something along the lines of "Only the Captain can authorise executions under normal conditions, however the HoS is granted emergency powers in dire conditions."

[FantasticFwoosh]

Thats a bit of a relic from the SoS days where the HoS couldn't execute crims, like at all.

I think it should be changed to something along the lines of "Only the Captain can authorise executions under normal conditions, however the HoS is granted emergency powers in dire conditions."

EVERY ROUND IS A EMERGENCY DUES VULT SPACE LAW.

But in all seriousness, when people complain about getting perma'd while being non-antag, its always worthwhile to throw the book in the cell to enlighten them that items and crimes have value.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Neener neener. I'm still not happy with the formatting though, but I think that's a universal wiki CSS issue. It just doesn't look quite right.

[WarbossLincoln]

But in all seriousness, when people complain about getting perma'd while being non-antag, its always worthwhile to throw the book in the cell to enlighten them that items and crimes have value.

I like to employ a three strike rule. If someone does moderate grey tiding 3 times, I perma them. And invariable have to take their headset as they scream and cry. Act like an antag get treated like an antag. I'm not talking about breaking a window into the bar or slipping a couple people. I mean the assholes that steal a fireaxe and break every brig window to expose the electrified grilles to the crew.

Another Policy I'm going to enforce when I play sec or warden: If you kill bait sec you get permad on the first offense. This shit has been happening like every other round for a week or so. A couple metafriends as non antags will steal a cloned or suicided body and run circles around the station smashing the body with extinguishers. They often space the body so you can't tell it was suicide. Then when an officer comes to arrest them they use self defense as an excuse to attack the officer and steal all his stuff. It's infuriating because it happens every other round and it's the same 4 or 5 assholes that do it.

[Malkevin]

Neener neener. I'm still not happy with the formatting though, but I think that's a universal wiki CSS issue. It just doesn't look quite right.

Probably because you removed the line breaks for no reason and fragmented several paragraphs.

[Atlanta-Ned]

Yes, the manual <br> tags work but it's usually a sign of something else wrong in my experience. Ah well, we can circle back around to it at a later date.

[Malkevin]

Yes, it's an indication that wiki is terrible for technical writing because it ignores single carriage returns