Disallow murder sprees on Basil.

[TheNightingale]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I propose that, on Basil, murder sprees be disallowed, even as an antagonist. Simple. You can kill people if they're your objective, you can kill people who are attacking you, you can kill people if they had it coming; but you can't kill people for just being there.

Why?: Because Basil is virtually always lowpop (it hits 40 at its highest points, and 15-20 is the usual amount), and the people who play on it don't appreciate murderboners. It's not fun for the victims, and on a station of about 20 people, the victims will be the vast majority of the crew.
How?: Anyone caught murderboning on Basil gets slapped with a dayban from both servers (as individual server bans aren't a thing).

Are you just saying this because "i ded pls ban"?
It's been a problem for a while; people from the hub or from Sybil come over, get antag, then murderbone with it. It's not fun for anyone but the killer, and since Basil is almost always lowpop, it's very difficult to stop them (especially if they're prepared).

But doesn't it infringe on antagonists?
Yes, that's the point. Even antagonists have to abide by the rules, and killing everyone just because you can is Being A Dick.

Why not on Sybil too?
Because the Sybil culture is more adapted to favour combat over roleplay, and Sybil is usually populated; it's not necessary there.

Why can't you just git gud?
It's a roleplaying game. Why can't you just roleplay?

No, seriously, what's stopping you from killing them?
Aside from the fact that we shouldn't have to? Our culture is adapted to roleplay, not combat, and when someone goes around shooting everyone they see, that becomes even more of a problem. There's often only one person in Security, and if they're killed and have their gear/access taken (especially if it's the Captain), then there simply aren't enough people to stop it. Basil is a medium RP server (Sybil is a light RP server, for comparison, and NoX is no RP), and it's not in the spirit of roleplay or sportsmanship to wordlessly murder everyone.

So how do you define a murder spree? Is it a murder spree if...
I know it when I see it.

But I think it's fine!
Do you play on Sybil?

Well, yes, but-
That's why, then. This is about Basil specifically; although Sybil might be willing to put up with murder sprees, Basil isn't.

[confused rock]

Additionally, it might be a good idea to play on Basil, to get some idea of how the culture works. If your experience with murderboners is based on your time on Sybil, that might not accurately reflect how they're perceived on Basil.

I tried basil because sybil was down.
I was met by pascal and some friend of his talking shit about sybil and calling everything ever metafriending, and then when sybil came up they went there just so they could talk shit about it some more.
In any case, it would be stupid to have basil be the high rp server when you consider that it is the one with the hub.

[Screemonster]

You're right on them being unrobust. Pubby servers are hilarious, especially the griefers. Griefers in particular are fantastic, I had one trying to toolbox and slip me as a janitor for like 3 minutes before he got a knockdown, beat me halfway to death, and then upon getting up I bottlesmashed him into oblivion.

I remember hearing of one place that got sick of scrub-tier pubbie atmotechs flooding plasma, and just mapped in a plasma filter on distro outside of atmo.
AI could see it, it wasn't hard for tators to get to and change it up, it was just an extra step that the pubbies didn't know about and just stood around confused as to why their deathgas wasn't filling the station

[Pascal123]

I tried basil because sybil was down.
I was met by pascal and some friend of his talking shit about sybil and calling everything ever metafriending, and then when sybil came up they went there just so they could talk shit about it some more.
In any case, it would be stupid to have basil be the high rp server when you consider that it is the one with the hub.

Maybe next time you shouldn't try to stir shit in deadchat and then feed the trolls, even admins were getting in on it. Even the Hub players were joining in on that. Even Hub players.
Nice to know you still care about that, though. Makes it all the better.

But in all seriousness. What does this have to do with the thread or policy in discussion? Are you just salty over something that happened a month ago? That's cute.

[CPTANT]

This just all depends on what kind of flavour of server you want.

It does increase RP and makes traitors more willing to manipulate the station in other ways than killing, on the other hand it limits your freedom. Yogstation has murder rules similar to this and it just makes for an environment where everything is a bit more relaxed and you have more time as a traitor to set up whatever you want to do.

[Oldman Robustin]

I think it's pretty bad, SoS has been playing recently and he said it was really bad.

Any time anyone dies in SS13, SoS says its pretty bad.

[Atticat]

Jeez, and here I am hoping Basil would be given a no-rules status.

[Gamarr]

There is several problems at work here however, making this issue muddied more than just a simple rules thing. At present, there is problems with weapon glutting thanks to Gateway missions (WHAT A SURPRISE), that are essentially 'powergame your way to loot' scenarios more often than not. I had no problems with the gateway being off for months, because of the problems it caused. It got turned back on, it was briefly nice, and then you realize where all the damn swords, shields, and bulletos are coming from again. Another is the simple playerbase, and lately the common downing of servers, so you get intermixing of the two servers players more than usual. I'm not really saying to disallow the murder sprees, as if people on bagil played security more, than it would be less an issue, but that comment goes for both servers really.

You can easily go onto sybil, with 65 people, and see the mid round manifest show you 0 officers, 0 warden, 0 detective, and 0 Head of Security. Its just there is more people there, who play to this kind of shit more often and thus can deal with it.
Another issue being metastation itself, as you can easily antaga and get lost in the myriad of tunnels on meta compared to box (which while typically having MORE PEOPLE to a varying degree, also is usually constrained to a massively smaller station, use logic, which do you think will get antags killed faster?).
I play both servers now btw, though I prefer bagil for the sole reason I find 80 player rounds to be cancerous after having adminned those numbers in the past. Only thing that gets me onto sybil is if the hour is bad, and bagil has just too few crew atm to be of interest to me. Though I often return as sybil inevitably increases in pop until its suffering incarnate.

[TheNightingale]

Even if everyone regularly played Security, it'd still be unpleasant - because we prefer to talk first, shoot later, and when someone kills an officer and takes their taser, everyone has a bad time. Bonus points if they're a changeling or have adrenals and medicine.

It's okay for antags to do interesting things, but going around killing uninvolved people isn't interesting. If people want to practice their robustness, they can use the gateway, or NoX, or Traitorstation. The only possible reason people have for killing the entire station is for the salt - it's to make the victims upset. Is this really the sort of behaviour we want to foster on a roleplay-oriented server?

[Redblaze3000]

Opening them up to admin shenanigans requires that there are admins online (which isn't always the case), requires that said admins be 'fun' ones (which also isn't always the case), and doesn't actually stop them doing it again. Giving them an antagban (or a real ban) for both servers will dissuade people from trying it on Basil - because they know this'll stop them doing it on Sybil too, where it's seen as more acceptable.

Ah yes, the culture of people telling me to fucking leave because I play on sybil. We should just throw bagil to the hubbies.

[TheLongbowMan]

Ah yes, the culture of people telling me to fucking leave because I play on sybil. We should just throw bagil to the hubbies.

It's honestly a shame you feel that way, I will try to cut down on the basil "secret club" mentality and make basil a more welcoming place for all, I mainly see this "sybil please leave" meme when sybil is down and thus basil consequently has to hold on to two player-bases for a while, but it shouldn't be a bad experience to pop over to basil every so often as a change from sybil.

[Pascal123]

Longbow... That's Redblaze. He gets cranky as hell the moment he even sees anyone from bagil.
Or anything even remotely related to bagil, for that matter.

[ColonicAcid]

"i'm going to stop this GET OUT MEME."

whats next youre going to ban "get out normies" to accommodate everyone?

[TheLongbowMan]

"i'm going to stop this GET OUT MEME."

whats next youre going to ban "get out normies" to accommodate everyone?

It's more of a mindset issue, not something that can be solved by banning people, and not something that can be solved instantly either.

[TheWiznard]

"i'm going to stop this GET OUT MEME."

whats next youre going to ban "get out normies" to accommodate everyone?

It's more of a mindset issue, not something that can be solved by banning people, and not something that can be solved instantly either.

Not only people form basil are responsible for this mindset. For nearly 2years now people from both servers have been st each others throats FNR. Most of this comes from the Sybil "basil is full of metafriends" meme and has been so fucking exaggerated every single goddamn time even the word basil is mentioned on Sybil. Basil isn't full of metafriends and hasn't been for nearly a year now. The basil get out meme started because people would come to basil, not enjoy how our rounds are paced, leave and then go back to Sybil and talk shit about basil. Why can't people accept that some people enjoy playing where you actually know who you're playing with?

[Xhagi]

Joining the chorus of no. Having different rules for the two servers would be hell on the administration. Same servers run by the same host having the same admins need the same rules, in my opinion.

[Malkevin]

"i'm going to stop this GET OUT MEME."

whats next youre going to ban "get out normies" to accommodate everyone?

It's more of a mindset issue, not something that can be solved by banning people, and not something that can be solved instantly either.

Not only people form basil are responsible for this mindset. For nearly 2years now people from both servers have been st each others throats FNR. Most of this comes from the Sybil "basil is full of metafriends" meme and has been so fucking exaggerated every single goddamn time even the word basil is mentioned on Sybil. Basil isn't full of metafriends and hasn't been for nearly a year now. The basil get out meme started because people would come to basil, not enjoy how our rounds are paced, leave and then go back to Sybil and talk shit about basil. Why can't people accept that some people enjoy playing where you actually know who you're playing with?

Well the "its full of metafriends" is no longer true because up until a couple of months ago basil was empty *bum* *dum* *tish*


Now its full of hubbies, dirty dirty hubbies.

[TheWiznard]

To be honest, yes there are a lot of garbage tier hubbies, but I can say that there are quite a few more hubbies that are actually semi decent and don't fuck up the game for everyone else.

[ColonicAcid]

majority of the playerbase even before the change to 2 were a) hubbies and b)garbage anyway so like not much has changed anyway??

now they pretend to have a position of superiority I guess?

[John_Oxford]

The server many people have come to love is becoming a hug box through rules. Not every problem is solved by slapping another rule on.

Refer to this graph, if you can't accept the fact that you aren't able to out-robust someone with antag gear after playing this game for as long as you have. Then jesus christ theres nothing i can do

[TheWiznard]

majority of the playerbase even before the change to 2 were a) hubbies and b)garbage anyway so like not much has changed anyway??

now they pretend to have a position of superiority I guess?

exactly what I'm talking about. talking shit fnr. I mean I know you have problems leading your trusting squadmates to their death colonic, but come on.
no one on basil "pretends to be superior", we're just trying to play our game, just like people on sybil are trying to play theirs. I don't see why there has to be this fucking divide between the way rounds play out on the two servers. If you want longer rounds with characters you generally know, play basil; if you want short fast paced clustered rounds with 10 different admins online go to sybil.

[ColonicAcid]

everyone is garbage i dont care what server they're from lol

[Redblaze3000]

Longbow... That's Redblaze. He gets cranky as hell the moment he even sees anyone from bagil.
Or anything even remotely related to bagil, for that matter.

This coming from Pascal the person that spews the "get out" meme seriously. At least i'm just funposting when I say that.

[oranges]

Basil is a shit server and the players on it are shit

we should ban them all

[TheWiznard]

Basil is a shit server and the players on it are shit

we should ban them all

how about we go on a fruit free diet

[calzilla1]

This can all be dealt with by one simple phrase ADMINS STOP BEING ANTI-FUN, UNCREATIVE FAGGOTS REEEEEEEEEEEEE

[paprika]

>it's a sybil players/forum warriors trying to decide basil policy for basil players episode

yeah nah

[Bawhoppennn]

pap on point for once

[TheNightingale]

>it's a sybil players/forum warriors trying to decide basil policy for basil players episode

yeah nah

[Steelpoint]

My safe space.

Also way to necropost. Though I guess this is more relevant now.

[Slignerd]

>it's a sybil players/forum warriors trying to decide basil policy for basil players episode

yeah nah

Aren't /tg/ bans shared across servers? Sybil players have all the right to speak on Basil policies as long as they are.

[Saegrimr]

Aren't /tg/ bans shared across servers? Sybil players have all the right to speak on Basil policies as long as they are.

Well yes, but... what?

How are you going to get banned from Sybil because of Basil if you don't go there?

[Slignerd]

For the most part, just because someone's a Sybil regular doesn't mean they can't play on Basil - so it does affect them, even across servers - and invalidating someone's opinion just because they main a different server isn't okay.

Honestly, even such a rule in the first place is bullshit - because then you're placing rule restrictions on the very role that's designed to be a foil to the crew - all while the crew is welcome to just lynch them for valids. So, make it against the rules for an antag to kill a random person because they're not an objective, but then suddenly said random person pulls a taser and gets the antag down on the spot? Yeah no, fuck dealing with shit like that.

Just let antags have their antag freedom, without them being paranoid about staff interventions while the entire crew is already against them. Putting antags on a leash is already cancer in many places outside /tg/station, I'd hate to see it here.

[Saegrimr]

I'm curious why someone would switch from one server to the other if not for wanting a different playstyle.

Like if there is two completely identical servers, why switch at all?

[oranges]

because you can join team red or team blue, but not both

[Pilgrim]

Look, antags don't need to be paranoid because everyone knows a murderboner when we see one. It's not crashing the brig (WITH NO SURVIVORS), it's not bombing the station to sow chaos, it's not about gunning your way to your objective -- it's about that faggot who gets an esword, crossbow, and noslips (or emag), then runs around the hallway chopping people up.


You know it, I know it, we know it -- being a murderboner is a lot different than being a proper antag. Killing everyone with a singularity is a hell of a lot different than chasing down the last assistant in arrivals.

[yackemflam]

Look, antags don't need to be paranoid because everyone knows a murderboner when we see one. It's not crashing the brig (WITH NO SURVIVORS), it's not bombing the station to sow chaos, it's not about gunning your way to your objective -- it's about that faggot who gets an esword, crossbow, and noslips (or emag), then runs around the hallway chopping people up.


You know it, I know it, we know it -- being a murderboner is a lot different than being a proper antag. Killing everyone with a singularity is a hell of a lot different than chasing down the last assistant in arrivals.

The worst they can do is be a e-sword + ebow faggot.
Just hit the faggot in the head and mob up on him, can`t take out all of you at once.

You know ,just like in real life.

[TheNightingale]

Just let antags have their antag freedom, without them being paranoid about staff interventions while the entire crew is already against them

"The entire crew"... so that's three assistants, an MD, a dead Security Officer and HoP, and a braindead Engineer?

[starmute]

I don't know basil that much, however I somehow doubt they would like enforcement of tough RP rules. Also you have to find admins to do this. Basically 2 stations 2 sets of rules. If this is something you are impassioned about I would ask the basil community during breaks of OOC to get a feel for what they want, and get some names supporting you on the forums.

To be honest however this seems like a lot of work. I'd probably say you're better off making your own server for this rule-set than trying to win over MSO and everyone else. Tgstation is slow to change and many minds are made up in "what tgstation is"

Just a opinion, take it or leave it.

[TheNightingale]

The Basil community used to be all for it, but since this thread was made (back in February), it's changed a lot. I don't even care any more, someone necro'd it when the last post was in March.

[Saegrimr]

I don't know basil that much, however I somehow doubt they would like enforcement of tough RP rules.

Basil is the one regularly suggesting it.

Also you have to find admins to do this.

There's usually more admins on basil these days because we prefer the more laid-back atmosphere with less greytiding garbage to deal with.

I don't know basil that much

[oranges]

There's usually more admins on basil these days because we prefer the more laid-back atmosphere with less greytiding garbage to deal with.

Self fulfilling prophecy

[captain sawrge]

disallow op's right to live

[Ryahask]

I can't think of a reason not to try this if the overwhelming majority of the Basil server population is interested.

Yes, Sybil players might swap between - but it can be made incredibly clear with the MOTD that a rule change has occurred specific to Basil. If a Sybil player breaks that rule then they deserve whatever punishment is deemed fair - they broke clearly stated rules, which they might not agree with, but you don't have to agree with them to follow them.

A lot of players, especially those who have a long history with the game and play through each update, sit on such a massive wealth of meta-game knowledge that it's entirely possible for them to beeline for unreasonably significant advantages which the more RP inclined player (as I'm to understand Basil features) hasn't/will not pursue.

This would not be difficult on admins, it might set a precedent that rules can diverge - but the change itself is a very basic one and anyone capable of being an admin should prove more than capable of remembering 1 rule change.

All that said, who knows it the majority of players are actually interested? This thread would suggest they are (Though I know it's been necroed and so some time has passed), but admins could, if willing, do polls at peak game time over a week or two and determine based on the results whether or not to experiment with the new rule.

[peoplearestrange]

EDIT: Holy shit this was a proper necro wasn't it? Hmmm I gonna go ahead and say its not as bad as it used to be. If someone things its a genuine problem then welcome to remake the thread with up to date info. For now lets lock this and let it slowly die