In this thread we brainstorm NTSL replacements

[bandit]

NTSL was removed by MSO because it could be used to crash the server. It isn't coming back, as far as I understand. And it was a buggy mess anyway.

This thread is to brainstorm design and code ideas to replicate its functionality with the tcomms machines and not 'lol insert whatever game crashing script you like'.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

NTSL was removed by MSO because it could be used to crash the server. It isn't coming back, as far as I understand. And it was a buggy mess anyway.

This thread is to brainstorm design and code ideas to replicate its functionality with the tcomms machines and not 'lol insert whatever game crashing script you like'.

Some sort of controller, which R&D can make upgrade boards to plug into, and then there's a machine which can turn the upgrades on/off and modify them

Example boards: "Name Suffix", "Name Prefix","Name Modifier","Speech Controller"

[CPTANT]

The problem with ntsl (besides of course crashing the server) was that was way too powerful and time consuming to use for what practical use it had. To replace 90% of the practical functions ntsl had you only need some specific programming blocks.

Replace word.
replace source.
add word.
delete word.
mute person.

check source.
check if message contains word x.

toggle parts of the scripts.


That is virtually the entirety of practical application for the entire system. Make a simple (graphical) replacement based around those functions. You will be trading flexibillity for the ability to actually get something done without either copying shit or spending more time scripting than the round takes.

[Miauw]

one of the big problems was that it was 95% of the time just used to copypaste in a superscript somebody made, which was super lame.

also boards should be completely unable to loop, which is pretty hard to do. i had to remove recorder wires bc they could be used with VAs to crash/lag the server and I couldnt find a solution.

[John_Oxford]

Since NTSL was removed for this server, anyone care to copy and paste said script that crashes the server

No, not so i can go fuck over servers whom i hold grudges on for reasons that are majorly my fault, thats just crazy talk.

--serious line--
You could have TCOMMS machines open up a interface that has pre-programmed options
(IE: Show Jobs - Show Jobs Shortened - Pirate Talk - Olden talk) then if you emag it, it opens up (Speech Scramble, Replacing Words with other words, replacing traitor with friendly, ect ect.)

[Gun Hog]

NTSL was removed by MrPerson (MisterPerson), and merged by Aranclanos. MSO was working on a fix when this happened.

My uses for NTSL, as evidenced by me spending large amounts of time across several months on my script, are as follows:

- Word converter to support my RP style for AI.
- Prerecorded messages.
- Selective mute (Job and name) and all-muter which even disabled station bounced radios.
- Universal Translator.
- Remote Signaller.
- Radio frequency interceptor and transmitter. (Can include non-department frequencies as well, such as CMO's spy channel)
- Say verb changer. (hisses -> roars, and other fun verbs)
- Font changer. (I personally coded NTSL support for this)
- Radio name changer.
- Abbreviated Job indicator.
- Customized arrivals announcer. My script had this long before there was a machine added for it.
- Message timestamp and clock.

I may come off as arrogant as I say this, but I believe that no one has put more time into the actual scripts themselves than I have, and I am quite proud of the power and versatility of my script, even though it is a cobbled mess. Learning NTSL is what inspired me to code for this game as well. I was quite delighted to know that others wanted me to share my script and they enjoyed using it as well.

When Goofball added his silly fonts, and Miauw cleaned up saycode, I added support for those fonts and changing say verbs via the radio for NTSL. I feel as if I could have saved NTSL had I developed a fix before some coders starting whining about the exploit.

However, the deed is done, NTSL is dead and it is not coming back. All hope is lost on that end, regardless of if MSO has a fix or not. I would love to see something that would replicate the major functions of my script. It is a rather significant feature loss that I believe only I and a few others truly understand. If you seek to recover a few things that were lost in the removal, I would be happy to work with you. Being able to code something and have your changes take place before your eyes in the game is a powerful feeling, any coder here can relate.

[whodaloo]

tbh the only things worth salvaging are job IDs and maybe selective muting

[DaemonBomb]

You could have TCOMMS machines open up a interface that has pre-programmed options
(IE: Show Jobs - Show Jobs Shortened - Pirate Talk - Olden talk) then if you emag it, it opens up (Speech Scramble, Replacing Words with other words, replacing traitor with friendly, ect ect.)

Honestly, that'd be like replacing the entire chemistry system with a heal chem, a poison chem, a fast chem, and a sleep chem.

Nothing bar a new scripting system could replace NTSL entirely.
And why does NTSL have to be permanently dead? If MSO finishes his fix, why can't NTSL be brought back?

Also, to people who are saying that NTSL is too time consuming for any normal person to use, have you ever actually looked at NTSL's syntax? It's easier than BASIC.

If we absolutely can't have NTSL back, I guess CPTANT's Scratch-esque drag and drop idea would be the second best option.
Don't forget to add signalling too, though. A lot of people forget that you could have NTSL scripts that set off bombs and stuff.

[tuypo1]

we ban people for any other delibrate server crash why remove a feature for just this source.

[Steelpoint]

The Job ID showing in the radio was one of the better features of NTSL and I would enjoy if that was made standard for communications.

[Miauw]

crashing wasn't the only reason ntsl was removed, nobody ever used it, the AI just copypasted the exact same script into it every single round.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

crashing wasn't the only reason ntsl was removed, nobody ever used it, the AI just copypasted the exact same script into it every single round.

I always deleted MAGNI if I found it in the tcomms machines

[Miauw]

yeah well what are you going to do against it the ai can just copypaste it in again in like three seconds

[Not-Dorsidarf]

yeah well what are you going to do against it the ai can just copypaste it in again in like three seconds

and goodbye cams, hello replacescript that replaces 'AI' with 'Shitturdinabox'

[Scones]

Job showing being standardized to the radio would be nice, but with full titles instead of abbv. drawn from ID

[Captain] [Security Officer] or with no ID, [Unknown]

[Miauw]

yeah because nerfing being able to disguise is a good idea rite

[Steelpoint]

Don't the ID's draw from what ID card your wearing?

If your not wearing someone's ID card then your disguise is already going to fail.

[Miauw]

its not like you can set the voice on your mask independantly of your ID, or the fact that changelings get an ability that lets them do the same.

[whodaloo]

crashing wasn't the only reason ntsl was removed, nobody ever used it, the AI just copypasted the exact same script into it every single round.

I always deleted MAGNI if I found it in the tcomms machines

the last time i did this, the AI bitched to sec and i got arrested

[Scones]

yeah because nerfing being able to disguise is a good idea rite

I don't see how this is the case

If you are talking without a voice changer, you are already fucked.

[Miauw]

always saying the id on your job on the radio basically makes voice changer masks and changeling mimic voice completely useless.

[Shadowlight213]

The way the job indicator worked in ntsl is it pulled your job info from the crew manifest based on your voice.
The only thing stopping ntsl features from getting implemented in an interface is that no one wants to actually code the UI for it.

[Not-Dorsidarf]

The way the job indicator worked in ntsl is it pulled your job info from the crew manifest based on your voice.
The only thing stopping ntsl features from getting implemented in an interface is that no one wants to actually code the UI for it.

Sec records I think, not manifest

[PKPenguin321]

i really didn't like NTSL, it felt kinda like telescience in that only people with OOC knowledge/applications (read: copypasted scripts) were able to gain an IC advantage from it

[MisterPerson]

I don't think any replacement would be good. Either it would be too limited to do anything or only usable by 1% of users. And of course nothing can fix the "can crash the server" problem.

The only thing stopping ntsl features from getting implemented in an interface is that no one wants to actually code the UI for it.

This is also true. A computer screen where you could mute individual people would be good, although obviously that's no replacement.

[Amelius]

W-why can't we have NTSL back? Building a compiler that doesn't go into infinite loops shouldn't be THAT hard. I mean, it's not tough in Java/C++/etc., so why is it so difficult here?

Yes, I'm aware of the problem that exists in that it's impossible to tell if a loop will terminate the next sequence or not, but there are plenty of artifical-esque solutions that would work fine here.

[PKPenguin321]

because like i just said it's more than a code issue

i really didn't like NTSL, it felt kinda like telescience in that only people with OOC knowledge/applications (read: copypasted scripts) were able to gain an IC advantage from it

with telescience it was the telesci calculator, and with NTSL it was the MAGNI script or whatever it was called

[MisterPerson]

W-why can't we have NTSL back? Building a compiler that doesn't go into infinite loops shouldn't be THAT hard. I mean, it's not tough in Java/C++/etc., so why is it so difficult here?

Yes, I'm aware of the problem that exists in that it's impossible to tell if a loop will terminate the next sequence or not, but there are plenty of artifical-esque solutions that would work fine here.

You're talking about solving the halting problem. That is literally impossible. Trying to detect a possible infinite loop is fine, but if it fails in one case, that's enough to make it worthless.

[CPTANT]

I think a module based approach with pre-made scripts loaded into the NTSL computer might be the best option. Just a list with pre made modules that can be turned on seperatly and have certain fields that can be adjusted. Like a replace words script in which you can adjust which words to replace. Or the selective mute script in which you can adjust the name of the person that can call it. That way people liking to script can still apply scripts for greenlighting and the rest of the players can make efficient use of these scripts in-game and without fear of breaking the server. This takes the OOC knowledge part out of the game since every script is available and you can use in-game reasoning to determine what script would be the most useful for you.



I would also give normal engineers acces btw, they already have access to the servers themselves and this might cause us to see some more juicy malicious use.

[Miauw]

Tbh I sort of like the idea of boards. Just a few fun prefix/suffix/replace/mute boards, basic stuff.
Maybe reduce the access requirement on wherever you slot in the boards, too, so its more than the CE and AI.

[DeutscherMajor]

i really didn't like NTSL, it felt kinda like telescience in that only people with OOC knowledge/applications (read: copypasted scripts) were able to gain an IC advantage from it

Pff, copypasted script.
I had the idea of writing a script and applying it as a drone that would replace all messages with "One l-one-three-k d-r-zero-n-three-five colon right-parenthesis" for that sweet gangban by all admins on the server.

[tuypo1]

The way the job indicator worked in ntsl is it pulled your job info from the crew manifest based on your voice.
The only thing stopping ntsl features from getting implemented in an interface is that no one wants to actually code the UI for it.

well in that case yeah no reason not to have it.