Engineering competency at an all time low?

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Sat May 24, 2014 7:40 am #8557

Bottom post of the previous page:

People try to time it right and run through before the emitter shoots, which is hilarious because >trying to have perfect timing in byond

ColonicAcid · Post by **ColonicAcid** » Sat May 24, 2014 9:27 am #8565

>Implying you can accurately decide when the game decides to have a cycle
when we find out the amount of time it really takes to do a cycle we will become gods.

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat May 24, 2014 6:17 pm #8675

paprika wrote:

This looks like the emitter will shoot you as you walk in front of it. Walking in front of emitters at ALL is a bad idea, my pathing only requires you do it once, when it's turned off.

Spoiler:
Starting point is the top left emitter. I never turn on the field generators until all the emitters are online, so I can count each of the 8 generators to make sure they're all on.

nigga
did you not read what i said or look at the image at all or what
its not like the emitter will turn itself on while you're walking past it, and unless the AI is rogue, you're gonna be fine.
plus, 1 emitter shot won't kill you, and trying to proof yourself from one small, highly unlikely, metagamey event is stupid.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Sat May 24, 2014 7:04 pm #8686

engineering incompetency is the best incompetency, it adds humor and fun

"HULL BREECH IN KITCHEN"
"ENGINEERING TO KITCHEN HULL BREECH"

and as all the oxygen is sucked from the gaping hole, engineering is afk or dead

also great place to get a new ID is engineering

miggles wrote:
paprika wrote:

This looks like the emitter will shoot you as you walk in front of it. Walking in front of emitters at ALL is a bad idea, my pathing only requires you do it once, when it's turned off.

Spoiler:
Starting point is the top left emitter. I never turn on the field generators until all the emitters are online, so I can count each of the 8 generators to make sure they're all on.
nigga
did you not read what i said or look at the image at all or what
its not like the emitter will turn itself on while you're walking past it, and unless the AI is rogue, you're gonna be fine.
plus, 1 emitter shot won't kill you, and trying to proof yourself from one small, highly unlikely, metagamey event is stupid.

dude thats not metagamey, its the same way as treating a gun as loaded at all times, you really never know ive been killed by emitters so often

miggles · Post by **miggles** » Sat May 24, 2014 10:11 pm #8729

ive never even heard of an ai turning on emitters to kill people

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Sun May 25, 2014 10:33 am #8822

Emitter lost power and turned off

This is the message I see most often when the singulo is released (without sabotage).
Usually it happens in slightly longer rounds, and it is caused by improper SMES configuration (at least I think so)

I believe some time ago (maybe more than a year? I really have no clue) emitters were changed from APC power to wire power or whatever.
Which is why you have to fuck around with placing generators and such when you have to fight the blob with emitters.
I dont really know why it is this way, the emitters should function with APC power primarily, and if there is no APC in the area, then generators.

ABearInTheWoods · Sun May 25, 2014 2:00 pm

leibniz wrote: I believe some time ago (maybe more than a year? I really have no clue) emitters were changed from APC power to wire power or whatever.
Which is why you have to fuck around with placing generators and such when you have to fight the blob with emitters.
I dont really know why it is this way, the emitters should function with APC power primarily, and if there is no APC in the area, then generators.

There is no apc for space...

leibniz · Post by **leibniz** » Sun May 25, 2014 3:19 pm #8851

MrStonedOne wrote:
leibniz wrote: I believe some time ago (maybe more than a year? I really have no clue) emitters were changed from APC power to wire power or whatever.
Which is why you have to fuck around with placing generators and such when you have to fight the blob with emitters.
I dont really know why it is this way, the emitters should function with APC power primarily, and if there is no APC in the area, then generators.
There is no apc for space...

There is an APC in Engineering and the wires lead there.

Post by **Dax Dupont** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 11:12 am #10684

Engineering is easy, just sometimes repetitive.
I mainly hate setting up the collectors. I also admit i once released plasma because the repetitive clicks late at night with spacelag causing the close valve button not registering and me not noticing before removing the tank because I am half awake.
Though I have on several occasions set up the field, PA, smes and collectors on my own...even 30 mins into the round where engineering is just fucking around instead of fixing power. I also tend to wire solars, set up the maintenance smes, I can do wireart and repair hullbreaches. The only thing I fail at is blob, I have a hard time figuring out where to place the damn things for the best effect.

Antonkr · Post by **Antonkr** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:20 pm #10686

One of the issues I see on artyom is typically lack of engineers especially on lower pop rounds. I typically then try to play as CE or engie on those, but typically an assistant/captain/HoP has to do the engine.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:47 pm #10695

You know what might be interesting? A admin only ability that lets them spawn in a dummy Engineering Cyborg (Possibly the older "humanoid" version) to function as a backup engineer at round start. This Cyborg's laws would demand it sets up the engine.

A more IC way to get the engine set up if there is a lack of engineering personnel.

Neerti · Post by **Neerti** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:53 pm #10740

The problem is cyborgs can't set up all of the engine by themselves due to lack of hands. They fail at filling tanks with plasma and putting them in collectors.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 5:59 pm #10741

Then maybe we can give Engineering Cyborgs a way to interact manually with certain engineering equipment? Something as simple as a plasma tank loader that let's them interact with plasma tanks. (If that's even possible).

Aside from that, there is no real other solution to this problem. Aside from admins religiously demanding engineering staff set up the engine and threatening job bans if they fail to do so, which may have unintended side effects.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 7:00 pm #10758

To be fair, if there's two or three engineers at round start and the engine isn't set up at 20m in, yes jobbans. Jobbans all around.

imblyings · Post by **imblyings** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 8:37 pm #10787

what about having the solar SMES cells start with like ten percent power or so.

any engineering borg or even the AI could then quickly get power running by turning output on the SMES to on and they can complete solars themselves.

Jalleo · Post by **Jalleo** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:37 pm #10810

How many people try to teach the new engineers how to setup the singularity. Most times when I do try to teach the power cuts out before we arefinished making everyone pissed.

You cant teach them unless solars are at least half done to power the emmiters.

By the time you do come back the engine almost escapes or the damn newbs died or got lynched or left. Or worse.

This is the long term effect of small changes that do a betterment of the code.

We need to really rethink about how obvious it is that nobody realises there are books teaching you how to do a basic singularity in engineering.

The help is there its just hidden and what people call the learning curve is a cliff for a station engineer.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:53 pm #10814

I'd like to see the SMES start with a bit more energy so engineers would have a longer grace period to figure everything out.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:03 am #10848

Jalleo wrote:How many people try to teach the new engineers how to setup the singularity. Most times when I do try to teach the power cuts out before we arefinished making everyone pissed.

You cant teach them unless solars are at least half done to power the emmiters.

By the time you do come back the engine almost escapes or the damn newbs died or got lynched or left. Or worse.

This is the long term effect of small changes that do a betterment of the code.

We need to really rethink about how obvious it is that nobody realises there are books teaching you how to do a basic singularity in engineering.

The help is there its just hidden and what people call the learning curve is a cliff for a station engineer.

Actually, there are books. When I was a rookie engineer, I read the book, but by the time I was halfway through the captain barged in and demanded to know why the engine wasn't set up. Since I was a newbie, I told him I didn't know how to set up the engine. He searched me and asked why I had six plasma tanks in my pack, and I told him I didn't know why I needed six plasma tanks.

There are lots of guides, but a lot of them suffer from tl;dr. What Engineering needs is a sheet of paper by the PA telling you "It's all ready to go! Just wrench it in, hook up the wires, and screw the panel shut!" and so on for each part.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:56 am #10861

Why not make engineers start with a 'how 2 singulo' book in one of their hands

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 3:54 am #10875

How about all Engineers start with a piece of paper in their backpack, that gives a very TL:DR description of how to set up the engine.

Hell, put the paper in their pocket. Or their hands.

This would be a very easy solution, one that even I probley could do, and it would go infinitly far in helping new players in engineering.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:02 am #10877

There's a book on engine setup already.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 4:24 am #10881

Except books are large and intimidating and (AFAIK) reliant on the wiki being up.

A simple paper in your hand/pocket that is very condensed write up on setting up the engine would be far better than the book.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 5:40 am #10901

Steelpoint wrote:A simple paper in your hand/pocket that is very condensed write up on setting up the engine would be far better than the book.

This. The book is terrible

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:36 am #10910

But my immersion. It'd better be at least a little fancy or something. Still, it's pretty funny to imagine all engineers arriving to the station with a pamphlet on how 2 engine because so many stations were abandoned because of incomp engineering.

ThanatosRa · Post by **ThanatosRa** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:38 pm #11092

I just thought of how horrific it would be if the mice in maintenance chewed through cables.

paprika · Post by **paprika** » Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:59 pm #11101

maybe if it was really rare, sure, but it'd make the janitor job a bit more fun at least! they should sanic away from you as soon as you hit them with something or step on them, making trapping with mousetraps a thing you have to actually do.

kosmos · Post by **kosmos** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:30 am #11466

I don't understand how competency can be at all-time low since the wiki page is at its all-time best condition! Should it be made even shorter..? I don't believe it can be made any shorter or simpler.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:59 am #11486

Just because the manual's there, doesn't mean people read it. Remember, the stereotypical engineer grabs a rig helmet, insulated gloves, and fucks right off to raid the armory from space or something. You really think they're going to care enough to read the guide?

Post by **Dax Dupont** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 12:51 pm #11533

Psyentific wrote:Just because the manual's there, doesn't mean people read it. Remember, the stereotypical engineer grabs a rig helmet, insulated gloves, and fucks right off to raid the armory from space or something. You really think they're going to care enough to read the guide?

I can confirm that I have done this, but only because I was pissed that I had to set up the engine on my own 5 times. Then I go fuck off and build something nice and relax.
Honestly, its not so much the fact of the work, since its less effort than being good telesci or rnd but fuck, when people just fuck off all the time I'll do it once as well if everyone else has been jerks for 10 rounds. I refuse to switch profession too because people are being dicks, if I want to be engineer, i'll be it. Though euh, if i fuck off I still fix hullbreaches and such of course.

Lo6a4evskiy · Post by **Lo6a4evskiy** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:20 pm #11538

Dunno about manuals, but space law books don't work now. For some time, actually.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 2:20 pm #11549

Thought that was fixed by having the wiki here?

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:51 pm #11598

I honestly think it's better if Space Law is blank. Forces sec to think on their feet.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:38 pm #11610

Psyentific wrote:I honestly think it's better if Space Law is blank. Forces sec to think on their feet.

No because people have zero judgement.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:43 pm #11616

Exactly - It weeds out the shitty sec who use spessraw instead of their brain.

Solarn · Post by **Solarn** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:12 pm #11630

Psyentific wrote:Exactly - It weeds out the shitty sec who use spessraw instead of their brain.

Those people would still play Sec though, except without Space Law to follow, they would be even worse.

Cipher3 · Post by **Cipher3** » Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:41 pm #11634

Personally I've always just wanted harsher treatment and more willingness to job ban people from sec by admins.

Psyentific · Post by **Psyentific** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 12:28 am #11727

Cipher3 wrote:Personally I've always just wanted harsher treatment and more willingness to job ban people from sec by admins.

The only reason I've shifted from vigilante guncargo to Sec is because I'm not expected to be by-the-books spacelaw, and I won't face OOC consequences if I don't always run towards the gunfire.

Sometimes, I really don't give a shit. Others, it's easier just to ask the cult (Which consists of 15 of a crew of 20) to please not murder people - Doing more would get me killed. Still others, there's a guy being a really annoying fuckstick but not really breaking any laws. Sec is one giant grey area, and spesslaw is black and white - There's a reason I don't follow or enforce it.

If you start using admins and policy to force competency on Sec, you're going to lose a fair amount of decent sec, not just bad sec. If you're going to enforce competency on one department, you ought to do it on all departments.

AseaHeru · Post by **AseaHeru** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:22 pm #11835

Aslong as the cult dosent break any laws (say, by drawing in the main hallways, attacking people) sec cant officially do shit.
Unless the chaplain convinces them totally that the cult is evil and a threat to NT.

TheTerbs · Post by **TheTerbs** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 2:24 pm #11837

AseaHeru wrote:Aslong as the cult dosent break any laws (say, by drawing in the main hallways, attacking people) sec cant officially do shit.
Unless the chaplain convinces them totally that the cult is evil and a threat to NT.

they can if they want, but most people will see runes and instantly fucking murder them because muh valid

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:13 pm #11852

AseaHeru wrote:Aslong as the cult dosent break any laws (say, by drawing in the main hallways, attacking people) sec cant officially do shit.
Unless the chaplain convinces them totally that the cult is evil and a threat to NT.

Hahahahhahahaha!

Oh wait your serious.

Hahahahahahahaha!

Maybe on a heavy role play server, but I'm not in the habit of shooting myself in the foot, shoving a baton up my behind, and giving the cult armoury access.

Miauw · Post by **Miauw** » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:55 pm #11864

sec can officially space every single cultist they can find while a winged corgi lands on their shoulder and sheds tears of joy.