hard population cap

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:09 am #103516

Bottom post of the previous page:

If these shitty hard caps are a must and obviously can't be fixed by unfucking whatever section of code fucked them up in the first place can we just open up Sybil 2, which like..runs boxstation and gives people that don't want to erp on basil a place to play?

We don't need to turn into "le exclusive" /tg/station13.

ThatSlyFox · Post by **ThatSlyFox** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:18 am #103518

I blame the maps honestly. People are comfortable with playing box and hate everything else. Rotating the maps on a weekly basis could help. The circlejerks claims are just a meme at this point.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:59 am #103528

Jeb wrote:All it needs to do is say "the game is currently full, your position in queue is 9" then either place you into the game automatically or BWOINK you and make you pick an open position.

Would be worlds better than what this is now

https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10566

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:01 am #103529

Ikarrus wrote:
Jeb wrote:All it needs to do is say "the game is currently full, your position in queue is 9" then either place you into the game automatically or BWOINK you and make you pick an open position.

Would be worlds better than what this is now
https://github.com/tgstation/-tg-station/pull/10566

Neat.

Seems like it was rather simplish too.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:21 am #103531

MrStonedOne wrote:Extreme cap at 70. This prevents connecting to the server. I put this in place after I watched the server buckle at 95 players. while basil had almost none. basil then got 10 new players. It was nice.

I added the extreme cap as a panic option for huge floods of new/spoofed users. Once the panic bunker feature was added any merit the extreme cap had was made more than a little redundant. I wasn't really expecting people to use it in a way that a normal user on a normal day would ever see.

Takeguru · Post by **Takeguru** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:33 am #103540

Not a fan, but if really buckled at more than 70 players, I GUESS I can see the reasoning.

The change will probably just make me play less instead of swapping to basil, though.

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:43 am #103546

You know the great thing about bugs? They can get fixed.

I know this hasn't been a problem until very recently, so I know someone will be able to rout out what's causing this.

But if the conditions under which it occurs aren't allowed in a live server, it'll probably take longer to figure out.

Post by **oranges** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:21 am #103592

In fact the more I think about it, I'm pretty sure it's the map difference.

KAP · Post by **KAP** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:29 am #103595

Honestly the only reason I won't play on basil is because of the map, if it was running anything but meta or mini I'd switch over and play it more often.

As it stands though with it's current map being meta I'm probably never going to get on Basil unless Sybil has been down for 3+ days.

I loved asteroid station.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:37 am #103598

Try renaming Basil to Sybil 2 and swap it to Boxstation, I'll bet that will improve its population.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:46 am #103601

Steelpoint, holy shit, put a trigger warning on that.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:12 am #103607

We get one of these threads every summer. And the problem solves itself once every summer is over.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:16 am #103610

If its a continual problem we face every year then why should we not seek a solution?

Just because you kill off cancer does not mean it's gone. Saying the problems solved every summer simply means the problems going to come back the next time.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 1:52 pm #103631

Speaking as a Basil player I really don't want our server to be Sybil's rubbish heap when it goes down and, in my experience, round quality takes a nosedive when Sybil players are the majority.
As for the suggestion of changing the station to Boxstation; no. I'd rather play on Baystation (No matter how utterly boring it is) than become Basil become Sybil 2 and if being Not!Boxstation keeps Sybillites away then we're all the better for it. Not even memeing.

TL;DR Sybil and Basil players do not mesh well and it always causes arguments. This is not elitism, it's a fact.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:12 pm #103636

The second server was put up just to deal with the population problem we had at the time.

Is there really a reason to keep it around if hardly anyone wants to play on it people like the above poster shuns outsiders?

The money could be better spent on other things. I certainly don't want to fund it.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:18 pm #103637

Metastation is really good, but if you are going to force a map change on server 2 make it anything but fucking box.

I personally think that while server 2 could use more players, there is a distinctly different play style there that does not mesh well with super high population and forcing people to play there is just going to puss them off.

Whenever this is brought up the response to these types of posts is always "lol to bad metabuddy erpers the needs of Sybil are more important" but then nothing ever happens anyways.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:24 pm #103639

I say switch it to box for a week and see what happens.

It's not like Basil could become any more dead.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:26 pm #103641

Last time we had this conversation I gave that exact suggestion of swapping Basil's map to Boxstation for a week.

Seriously do that.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:29 pm #103642

Ikarrus wrote:The second server was put up just to deal with the population problem we had at the time.

Is there really a reason to keep it around if hardly anyone wants to play on it people like the above poster shuns outsiders?

The money could be better spent on other things. I certainly don't want to fund it.

And I do want to fund it and I want to continue playing tgstation, but not on the Sybil server. I have no problem with other "outsider" players but in all of my experiences, Sybil players and Basil players do not mix well. I have yet to be proven wrong by this.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:36 pm #103643

We already have one server running box. There is an entire thread about putting up a map rotation. If you are going to change server 2's map please make it anything but box, maybe eff3 or assstation

And god dammit ikkarus we get 20-30 players at peak times. It is not a lot but it is certainly not dead

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:37 pm #103644

Boxstation is the only map we have that resonates well with a majority of people, I've yet to see any other map on Sybil do as well as Box.

E: As I have said many times before, if you want to see Basil's population increase, then I will bet that swapping it to Boxstation will do just that.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:40 pm #103645

I'm just laying it out there that we have a problem (population overflow) that was supposed to be fixed with the second server, which it is failing at doing.

eff3 and assstation are both horribly out of date as well, and won't be usable.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:45 pm #103646

In the map rotation thread people have flat out said they like box because it helps them powergame

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 2:46 pm #103647

Steelpoint wrote:Boxstation is the only map we have that resonates well with a majority of people, I've yet to see any other map on Sybil do as well as Box.

E: As I have said many times before, if you want to see Basil's population increase, then I will bet that swapping it to Boxstation will do just that.

We don't want hugboxstation. We had Boxstation for a week before and many people utterly disliked it. Besides which Steelpoint, you don't play Basil to the best of my knowledge so I don't really think you're the best person to make suggestiosn to the server.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:08 pm #103649

I don't give a shit about any petty server wars shit you people like to pile on about.

My experiences on Basil are irrelevant, the fact of the matter is that Basil is failing in its task of providing a place for overflow from Sybil to move to. From my point of view I see two possible reason as to why Basil is not working.

1:) The map is simply not popular. From historical attempts the server that has had Boxstation has always had a higher population, and that in situations where the server with Boxstation fails the other server with any other map will not see a significant increase in population, thus this lends credit to the view that the map itself is what attracts and keeps the higher population.

2:) People may simply dislike any prevalent attitudes present on Basil. While the empty fields where nothing grows shows the little amount of fucks I give to the server war issues (outside of shitposting), but there has to be something iffy going on when a large amount of people claim that there's a negative atmosphere exhibited on Basil.

Simply put, my suggestion of swapping Basil's map to Boxstation is the path of less effort on the host's side. Doing this for a week or so, along with a name change, can show us if its simply the map and name that keeps people out.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:23 pm #103650

Basil should be treated as it's own server and not as an overflow server. It might have been that at some point in the past but it's not anymore and the prevailing attitude that it's Sybil's cum dump ought to be dropped. I don't give a flying toss about "server wars" but I do give a toss about people trying to force their shitty map on it without even taking into account the people who do use the server mostly's opinion.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:31 pm #103651

Then instead of us trying to make our own interpretations on what role Basil currently fills, why don't we get the hosts opinion on what role he wants Basil to fill?

Should it be a overflow server or should it be its own unique one? Because I don't think we can afford a third server.

Jeb · Post by **Jeb** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:32 pm #103652

There's only one physical server.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:42 pm #103656

Either way, it's not what Basil's playerbase play for. I can't speak for everyone but people who do play Basil tend to prefer it to Sybil due to the different atmosphere and community.
And I really don't have any intentions of sticking around if Basil goes or becomes Sybil 2: Electric Boogaloo. I don't play for the high-pop, short rounds that Sybil has, it's fine in doses but it's not the kind of server I'm looking for, and it's obviously in my interest to oppose any changes to Basil for the pure benefit of Sybil at it's own expense.

Just like Sybil would oppose any changes to it's core gameplay.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 5:46 pm #103667

I think MSO commenting on this is a good idea. The way I see it, this issue boils down to 20-30 people who cannot get in to Sybil vs the 20-30 people who frequent basil

Incoming · Post by **Incoming** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:00 pm #103670

Copy all the saves from sybil and open a third server, name it sybil 2 and rename sybil to sybil 1. Leave bagil to do its own thing.

After the summer rush ends just fold the sybils back together and call it a day.

onleavedontatme · Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:07 pm

Incoming wrote:Copy all the saves from sybil and open a third server, name it sybil 2 and rename sybil to sybil 1. Leave bagil to do its own thing.

After the summer rush ends just fold the sybils back together and call it a day.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of Basil or the playstyle but it seems silly to kill that long time community to host a temporary overflow of summer newfriends that will be gone in a couple months anyway.

Stickymayhem · Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:39 pm

Third server when.

Atticat · Post by **Atticat** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 6:50 pm #103686

I play almost exclusively on box station and personally dislike the meta station map but after the literal 5,000th time I would do a lot for a map change. I'd play on basil to resolve this but the pop is usually too low for me personally. But it sucks imo that the playerbase is so pro-stagnancy.

Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:30 pm

If you have a problem with this server config setting, PM the host.

QuartzCrystal · Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:26 pm

I was opposed to getting a second server years ago when we got it originally, I'm still opposed to it.

I'm also for the hard population cap though.

Amelius · Post by **Amelius** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:33 am #103841

This shit is byond stupid. 50-60 people is like bare minimum when things are interesting at this point. 70+ is where you get excessive. Wasn't most of the server complaining about rounds being banal, slow-paced, boring, hugboxy and so forth, and yet we're constantly forcefully lowering the pop cap because some people prefer fewer people without any oversight?

You can't force people to play on Basil unless you switch it to Box, and even then most will spam Sybil because that's where all the players are. People who mainly play on Basil would hate the influx of players and lighter roleplaying, and vice versa.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:38 am #103843

>Not knowing the difference between Connected players and Playing players
>Not knowing the server cap hasn't been changed and has remained as 65 for the last few months

Incomptinence · Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:44 am

Well why does inaccurate signage keep advocating a 50 player cap?

I mean many people out there probably think it is an actual cap at fifty by now this inaccuracy has been around for a while in one way or another.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sun Jul 30, 2023 1:33 am

Just a heads up

Asteroidstation is updated and is officially in the repo now.

*cough give us ass back on basil cough*

TheWiznard · Post by **TheWiznard** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:30 am #103920

I've always played on basil, I might hop on sybil once or twice when there are only 10 people on in the morning (on basil), but I tend to gravitate towards metastation. I think the biggest problem is how our "community" interacts with each other, calling each other memelords and erp metabuddies doesn't foster a positive feeling. Some people can generally dislike meta, I get that; but I think the main group of people just hate anything different than what they are used to. It's like everyone here was born in The Baby Boomers and hates anything new or different to what they know with a passion, and don't seriously look at both sides of the problem or anything else for that matter. Whenever I've played on basil I never see this hostile edgy "get offa my serber syblite" shit people are saying, so I might not get the point you're trying to make with it. I can admit that some rounds do wind up taking way way too long to end; finally ending after two hours or more at times. I get it, that shit sucks, I understand (normally it's whenever I roll AI at 1am and regret life). I think it's the mindset different people from our two servers have.
For example I was playing a round last night and it was obvious some people from sybil were on (no server wars shit going on, just new names) and like 15-20 minutes into the round a good chunk of the station is blown up. The traitor wound up killing himself and we decided to fix up the station instead of calling the shuttle. This guy from sybil (not trying to be meme, just trying to prove my point) keeps calling over the radio "man this looks really bad" "man are you sure you don't wanna call the shuttle?" "man this looks like a lot of work" etc. People tell him over the radio it's not that bad and we can do it (like all 17 people are working on fixing the station except this guy). He winds up suicide because "it looked like too much work and I can't help out." This guy was an atmos tech, he coulda been laying pipe w/ an rpd or anything else, but just chooses to suicide cause we won't reset the round over over some minor explosions. My point is, I think that (not trying to be offensive just saying) people from sybil enjoy the higher paced frequent rounds churned out after the other (I get that) and when things explode big time on sybil the first thing that's done is the shuttle is called and it's pretty much the end of the round. On basil explosions go off and the first thing that's done is the people actually inspect the explosion and decide if it's something we can patch up or not. Generally we patch up explosions instead of just "well explosions time to leave". I personally enjoy the slower paced hour long rounds.

sorry for wall text.

TheNightingale · Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:15 am

TheWiznard wrote:For example I was playing a round last night and it was obvious some people from sybil were on (no server wars shit going on, just new names) and like 15-20 minutes into the round a good chunk of the station is blown up. The traitor wound up killing himself and we decided to fix up the station instead of calling the shuttle. This guy from sybil (not trying to be meme, just trying to prove my point) keeps calling over the radio "man this looks really bad" "man are you sure you don't wanna call the shuttle?" "man this looks like a lot of work" etc. People tell him over the radio it's not that bad and we can do it (like all 17 people are working on fixing the station except this guy). He winds up suicide because "it looked like too much work and I can't help out." This guy was an atmos tech, he coulda been laying pipe w/ an rpd or anything else, but just chooses to suicide cause we won't reset the round over over some minor explosions.

We actually fixed almost all of it in the end (and I think the atmos tech suicided because they'd been fixing bombs for the past four rounds and got tired). Only the disposals network was still damaged (and nobody likes disposals pipes anyway). Six maxcap bombs went off, and we fixed it. (Then the adminspiders came and we did a nice, orderly evacuation with lots of screaming.)

Currently, you see something like this:
Sybil: 50/50 ||| Basil: 25/50.
The thing is, though, Basil isn't the overflow server, as Anonmare says. We have a different approach to SS13 than Sybil does, and that's not inherently a bad thing. For rounds that end in twenty minutes with no satisfying conclusion, go to Sybil. For rounds that stretch on for four hours where everyone goes braindead, go to Basil. And either way is fine -- but it's important not to try and force one playstyle on another.

How about this: Raise the Sybil popcap to 70.

newfren · Post by **newfren** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:39 am #103929

Did you really just suggest raising the popcap by 5 players as if it's the solution to these problems? I mean I don't really have a horse in this race but that's a little absurd.

TheNightingale · Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:45 pm

According to the main page, the Sybil cap is currently at 50. I'm suggesting raising it by 20. http://prntscr.com/7s5prx

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:48 pm #103950

Or we can just ditch the cap because if 90+ people want to play on one server, and won't swap to another, then let them do that.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:48 pm #103951

TheNightingale wrote:According to the main page, the Sybil cap is currently at 50. I'm suggesting raising it by 20. http://prntscr.com/7s5prx

>not reading the thread before you post

You are making a fool of yourself

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:53 pm #103952

>blaming someone for not knowing the 50/50 cap is not actually a cap.

He's highlighting how stupid it is to show a supposed cap that is not really a cap that just keeps people from joining in the server.

Ikarrus · Post by **Ikarrus** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:20 pm #103958

70 isn't a real cap either and is also an arbitrary number.

Wyzack · Post by **Wyzack** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:02 pm #104016

I thought that 90 players was causing the server to buckle.

Post by **oranges** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 9:19 pm #104042

The server suffers lagstorms at 50 players and at 40 players as well, I'm sure most of the lag is dependent on certain situations like singularity releasing, mass bombs etc.

ABearInTheWoods · Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:01 am

To touch on what was said earlier.

I'm not ditching metastation.

Bagil isn't going be running box. Box is a shitty bland dull map.