Traitor Ideas you wanna pull off.

bandit · Post by **bandit** » Sat May 30, 2015 7:11 pm #91859

Bottom post of the previous page:

I want to subvert the AI, have a party in the holodeck, somehow convince the entire crew to come, wait a while, then give the AI the signal to burncarp them all.

Babin · Post by **Babin** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:16 am #92198

I want to escape the station while "holding" as many players as possible.

Murder people and put their brains into radio-enabled MMIs. Create enough pAIs for every ghost that wants to join in. Board the shuttle with a backpack full of chatty heads and AIs.

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:40 am #92204

bandit wrote:I want to subvert the AI, have a party in the holodeck, somehow convince the entire crew to come, wait a while, then give the AI the signal to burncarp them all.

This is why the holodeck needs to be in a more central location. (Although I'd prefer if the BURN mode was removed, it's just silly OP).

Post by **lumipharon** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 1:06 am #92216

holoswords do real damage if you turn the safeties off.

It would be hilarious for a traitor/rogue AI, if they managed to pursuade a bunch of people to have a holosword brawl, then turn the safeties off mid fight.

Killbasa · Post by **Killbasa** » Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:53 pm #99136

Go into maintenance with everything i need to make a crusher, then lube the hall so people go slipping into an emagged crusher.

Anonmare · Post by **Anonmare** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 12:18 am #99200

Be a Shaft Traitor. Steal the Chaplain's soul stone and hope to get lucky and find a construct shell while mining. Kill someone and steal their soul, load them into the cosntruct. Tell them to cause chaos and make people think there's a cult.
Watch as Sec goes crazyvalidhunter for something that doesn't exist

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 8:42 am #99255

Killbasa wrote:Go into maintenance with everything i need to make a crusher, then lube the hall so people go slipping into an emagged crusher.

I did this, it's really amusing. Always remember that you can just deconstruct and move the roundstart crusher.

Post by **PKPenguin321** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 9:00 am #99257

Anonmare wrote:Be a Shaft Traitor. Steal the Chaplain's soul stone and hope to get lucky and find a construct shell while mining. Kill someone and steal their soul, load them into the cosntruct. Tell them to cause chaos and make people think there's a cult.
Watch as Sec goes crazyvalidhunter for something that doesn't exist

unfortunately this would only work on basil since only metastation has a soul stone for the chaplain, and there are never cults on basil so they wouldn't fall for it anyways

Screemonster · Post by **Screemonster** » Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:48 pm #99311

Replace the AI's lawset and make it into Friend Computer.

Then define a bunch of people as communists, subversives, and so on. Anyone with genetic powers is a mutant, etc etc etc.

Zaffre · Post by **Zaffre** » Sun Jul 05, 2015 4:36 pm #101813

I've always wanted to pull off a murder objective simply by getting out my wooden spoon and start stirring shit about certain people and my target. Saying things that would eventually lead to either a fight that escalates to death or just straight up lynching of my target, all without being in any actual fight myself.

I haven't got a clue what I'd say but I'm always thinking about it. Maybe something like saying my target is an alien to some sec officer and bribing other people to say the same to other officers. Target will be arrested, questioned and searched (and if it's DA they might have traitor shit on them and get lynched). The target will most likely put up a fight as they are innocent and that might escalate etc etc. The possibilities are pretty great.

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:25 pm #102739

I want to make six max cap bombs as a scientist, and then build a hidden autocloner in the misc lab or maybe one of those random rooms in north arrivals with a hidden wall-door making it invisible to people.
Then, I proceed to suicide-bomb the most populated parts of the station, spouting off witty one-liners at my victims as we explode, only to be rapidly cloned to deliver the next bomb two minutes later.

Killbasa · Post by **Killbasa** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:20 am #102741

invisty wrote:I want to make six max cap bombs as a scientist, and then build a hidden autocloner in the misc lab or maybe one of those random rooms in north arrivals with a hidden wall-door making it invisible to people.
Then, I proceed to suicide-bomb the most populated parts of the station, spouting off witty one-liners at my victims as we explode, only to be rapidly cloned to deliver the next bomb two minutes later.

"Who the fuck is that naked guy and where is getting all those bombs?!"

Ahammer18 · Post by **Ahammer18** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:26 am #102742

Its cliche but I've always wanted to stash bombs around the station then threaten to blow them up unless my demands were met

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:28 am #102743

White Ship cult base. It has to happen at some point. Get an artificer, send the ship to derelict, let them have at it. Use runes to come and go.

Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:44 am

invisty wrote:I want to make six max cap bombs as a scientist, and then build a hidden autocloner in the misc lab or maybe one of those random rooms in north arrivals with a hidden wall-door making it invisible to people.
Then, I proceed to suicide-bomb the most populated parts of the station, spouting off witty one-liners at my victims as we explode, only to be rapidly cloned to deliver the next bomb two minutes later.

actually this is really really easy to do and i've done it before, here's the secret:
at the point where you've researched autocloners, you've also researched bluespace beakers
build a portachem and use the protolathe to spit out some large grenade casings
get two bluespace beakers and fill one with 300u water and the other with 300u potassium, insert into grenade casing. this is a maximum capacity bomb that takes maybe a little under a minute to make and is easier to conceal.
if desired, attach an igniter to a signaler and insert that into the grenade for things like voice activated bombs.
and there you have it, max cap bombs and an autocloner that you can decimate the station with.

just make sure to not blow up too close to your autocloner, that's what i ended up doing ;-;

Killbasa · Post by **Killbasa** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:50 am #102747

I want to do something like that, but use proximity sensors and plop them around various places in maint/low traffic areas.

I could also make some with mousetraps and hide them under a shitload of items so nobody would know.

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:20 am #102757

Oh, how rarely one survives long enough as a traitor scientist to maximise their dirty deeds. I've seen some amazing stuff though. Can you still train and breed an army of slimes to be loyal to you yet murderbone all living creatures on sight?

Killbasa · Post by **Killbasa** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:48 am #102762

invisty wrote:Oh, how rarely one survives long enough as a traitor scientist to maximise their dirty deeds. I've seen some amazing stuff though. Can you still train and breed an army of slimes to be loyal to you yet murderbone all living creatures on sight?

Don't know about about the slimes themselves doing it, but i have seen Dante make enough of them with sentience to be considered a small militia.

Almost every round i see him going xeno he ends up filling the place to the brim with slimes while being a slime person himself.

Ricotez · Post by **Ricotez** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:57 pm #102919

Dante turns murder into an art.

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:41 pm

Ricotez wrote:Dante turns murder into an art.

Dante isn't all that robust really, he just used to abuse broken OP (and removed) mechanics to dunk scrubs.

These days he just gets abducted by memelings a lot and subverts borgs.

Post by **Vekter** » Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:06 pm #102973

Damn good borg player, though.

Babin · Post by **Babin** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:30 am #103101

Killbasa wrote:I want to do something like that, but use proximity sensors and plop them around various places in maint/low traffic areas.

I could also make some with mousetraps and hide them under a shitload of items so nobody would know.

Fun fact: Infrared assemblies can be configured to have an invisible laser, and the laser works even if you stash the grenade inside of a disposals chute.
Infrared assemblies are also horribly buggy and weird.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:24 pm

Ahammer18 wrote:Its cliche but I've always wanted to stash bombs around the station then threaten to blow them up unless my demands were met

I've had bombs stashed before but I always worry that as soon as I hint about hidden bombs everyone will flee from the usual spots and/or tear up floor tiles/lockers until they find most of them.

I usually find its just as satisfying to do a simultaneous detonation and lick up the salt in deadchat.

My latest idea is to just get a silencer stetchkin, thermals, and a hidden autolathe in maint to pump out infinite bullets. Then just sit there and start a mass grave as you use your PDA/dead people's department radio/etc. to lure individuals/small groups into some long+narrow killzone you've set up. Either that or a revolver but I'm split between the surprise factor of stetckin versus the lethality of revolver. Leaning stetchkin just because it's hilarious that most people don't even realize they're being shot until they're in crit, but it would sec to get ruined early by some secborg who just tanks your bullets... I don't think that it could survive a revolver volley though.

If I'm really feeling nasty I'd make a table protecting me with a series of hidden walls to bypass it if I need to retrieve bodies in a snap, and then make a new airlock at the end of the kill zone that would close+bolt with a signal while I taunt my victim from the darkness. If I'm at my maximum powerlevel I might even throw a similar signaller onto the Tcomms hub. Imagine the terror of walking through maint, a random airlock you didn't notice suddenly closes behind you and bolts, ahead of you is a table with someone in the shadows behind it... you scream for help but the radios have gone off too...

I'd probably just get stuck on the door phase though, I don't think its possible to have a door that will ONLY open/close on signal pulses, and getting it to close AND bolt without some obscenely clunky setup would be impossible.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:29 pm

Luke Cox wrote:White Ship cult base. It has to happen at some point. Get an artificer, send the ship to derelict, let them have at it. Use runes to come and go.

I was with you when you did this.

1) You really need to do something besides sit on white ship and do nothing all round while asking people to find words/bring sacrifices/get targets/etc. Seriously you were the RD and I had to beg you just to come back to station on my teleport rune so you could blow the borgs. You were in the best position to do word research too but you just sat there asking someone else to do it for you.

2) While the idea of a cult-ship is awesome, it's really not any better than a standard mining cult base. Probably worse given that if you use it to dock with station, sec can blitz it or science can bomb it... much safer to just use teleport runes.

whodaloo · Post by **whodaloo** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:39 pm #103189

As far as cult bases go I almost got dunked by a cult base in perma of all places, I've wanted to emulate that for a while, now.
A cultist went officer at the start of the round and set up some runes in perma, they teleported some folks in and tunneled into the armory while everyone was at the bar watching the rage cage fight. They eventually got dunked because they were unrobust, but it's a 8/10 idea.

Post by **Vekter** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 2:46 pm #103191

Ahammer18 wrote:Its cliche but I've always wanted to stash bombs around the station then threaten to blow them up unless my demands were met

The problem is no one on this server would give a fuck and would just hunt you down and beat you to death.

Braincake · Post by **Braincake** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 4:22 pm #103208

Oldman Robustin wrote:I'd probably just get stuck on the door phase though, I don't think its possible to have a door that will ONLY open/close on signal pulses, and getting it to close AND bolt without some obscenely clunky setup would be impossible.

This is surprisingly easy, actually.

Cutting the ID wire on an airlock will make it refuse to open for anything unless the open/close wire is pulsed, or a cyborg comes along. Cutting the timing wire will make the door stay open indefinitely after being opened.

So, cut both the ID wire and the timing wire, then attach a signaller to the open/close wire. It will open when signalled, and stay open. Signal it again, and it will close and refuse to open for anyone.

Disclaimer: This may have been changed since I last tried it.

EndgamerAzari · Fri Jul 10, 2015 6:39 pm

Not quite a traitor idea, but a "probably pushing the line of acceptable behavior" idea:

As a captain, I want to execute prisoners exclusively by strangling them to death with my bare hands.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:16 pm

Braincake wrote:
Oldman Robustin wrote:I'd probably just get stuck on the door phase though, I don't think its possible to have a door that will ONLY open/close on signal pulses, and getting it to close AND bolt without some obscenely clunky setup would be impossible.
This is surprisingly easy, actually.

Cutting the ID wire on an airlock will make it refuse to open for anything unless the open/close wire is pulsed, or a cyborg comes along. Cutting the timing wire will make the door stay open indefinitely after being opened.

So, cut both the ID wire and the timing wire, then attach a signaller to the open/close wire. It will open when signalled, and stay open. Signal it again, and it will close and refuse to open for anyone.

Disclaimer: This may have been changed since I last tried it.

Ah the timing wire was the step I was missing, didn't realize that cutting it would leave the door stay open.

Oldman Robustin · Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:21 pm

EndgamerAzari wrote:Not quite a traitor idea, but a "probably pushing the line of acceptable behavior" idea:

As a captain, I want to execute prisoners exclusively by strangling them to death with my bare hands.

You mean there's other ways to execute people?

That reminds me, next time I get stuck in a shitty traitor round as captain I'm subverting the AI and then making an extravagant execution device.

Maybe something like: Mirror atmos chutes where the prisoner is cuffed but not wearing shoes and there's glass shards in the middle.

That or some other elaborate slow-death torture like a chem implant with cryomix and a 1x1 cell open to space.

EndgamerAzari · Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:30 pm

Oldman Robustin wrote:
EndgamerAzari wrote:Not quite a traitor idea, but a "probably pushing the line of acceptable behavior" idea:

As a captain, I want to execute prisoners exclusively by strangling them to death with my bare hands.
You mean there's other ways to execute people?

That reminds me, next time I get stuck in a shitty traitor round as captain I'm subverting the AI and then making an extravagant execution device.

Maybe something like: Mirror atmos chutes where the prisoner is cuffed but not wearing shoes and there's glass shards in the middle.

That or some other elaborate slow-death torture like a chem implant with cryomix and a 1x1 cell open to space.

I also want to scream incoherently and emote spraying spittle in the prisoner's face and my eyes bugging out as I do so.

And yeah, sometimes it's tempting to just go full megalomaniac hardass as the captain and use your authority and access to make people rue the day they fucked with you. The past few rounds I've played as el jefe have really pushed my limit of nice-guy-ness.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 7:48 pm #103264

EndgamerAzari wrote:Not quite a traitor idea, but a "probably pushing the line of acceptable behavior" idea:

As a captain, I want to execute prisoners exclusively by strangling them to death with my bare hands.

This is absolutely fine.

Captain has the right to execute capital criminals, despite any bleeding vaginas telling you otherwise there are no restrictions on how you perform that execution.

EndgamerAzari · Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:00 pm

Malkevin wrote:
EndgamerAzari wrote:Not quite a traitor idea, but a "probably pushing the line of acceptable behavior" idea:

As a captain, I want to execute prisoners exclusively by strangling them to death with my bare hands.
This is absolutely fine.

Captain has the right to execute capital criminals, despite any bleeding vaginas telling you otherwise there are no restrictions on how you perform that execution.

Yeah, I know, but I'm always walking on eggshells because 1) I'm really unrobust and 2) it's always difficult to tell when it's appropriate to scream "THAT'S IT" and fucking dunk a shithead that's been harassing you and trying to incite rebelling all shift despite you doing nothing but helping.

*coughRolloKinsmancough*

One Seven One · Fri Jul 10, 2015 8:43 pm

I've always wanted to set up a trapped room for a target.
I'd pick a room and cut the AI wires and stick a signaler on the bolt wire.
I'd knock 'em out one way or another and put them somewhere this would work. Like the Detective's office or the Vacant office.
I'd give the target a signaler and a note before they woke up.
The note would explain that they have 10-20 minutes to solve this room before it explodes and would point give them a hint to their first clue to freedom.
The signaler is there because they need to put together the right frequency to unbolt the door

If I could make safes I would have more to work with, but I'll just have to make due with a lot of filing cabinets and clip boards.
Maybe even implement a few traitor things like a smuggler satchel under the floor tiles.

Pretty much any TC I don't use on the plan will go to C4s attached to a timer/signaler assembly.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:30 am #103334

Malkevin wrote:
EndgamerAzari wrote:Not quite a traitor idea, but a "probably pushing the line of acceptable behavior" idea:

As a captain, I want to execute prisoners exclusively by strangling them to death with my bare hands.
This is absolutely fine.

Captain has the right to execute capital criminals, despite any bleeding vaginas telling you otherwise there are no restrictions on how you perform that execution.

If I can get away with how I do my executions, none of you need to worry

Babin · Post by **Babin** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:33 am #103356

Toxins. Make three bombcap bombs with timers and use a hand labeler to name them "Bomb 1" "Bomb 2" and "Bomb 4"

Announce that there are four bombs aboard the station. Watch as the station finds your three bombs (either by managing to locate them, or the bomb actually exploding) and devolves into a panic as they search for Bomb 3 and can't find it.

DemonFiren · Post by **DemonFiren** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:10 am #103886

I wanna dismantle and space the solars, then sneakily deconstruct all PACMANs, then the cargo ordering consoles, drop a powersink and finally chuck out the PA.

Then I wanna see what people will do.

Post by **lumipharon** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:29 am #103889

DemonFiren wrote:I wanna dismantle and space the solars, then sneakily deconstruct all PACMANs, then the cargo ordering consoles, drop a powersink and finally chuck out the PA.

Then I wanna see what people will do.

Tell the AI to call the shuttle, probably.

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:28 am #103900

Be Scarecrow by flooding the station with bluespace beaker Bath Salt gas grenades

Tokiko2 · Post by **Tokiko2** » Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:00 pm #103935

When goof's conveyorbelt RCD additions are merged, I'll try my hand at building some super deadly conveyor belt trap room with crushers/electrified grilles/uranium walls/supermatter shards/disposal inlets that trap you/emitters. Maybe even construct a turret in the middle of the room, then lure security/validhunters inside and have a fight.

Screemonster · Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:13 pm

Tokiko2 wrote:When goof's conveyorbelt RCD additions are merged, I'll try my hand at building some super deadly conveyor belt trap room with crushers/electrified grilles/uranium walls/supermatter shards/disposal inlets that trap you/emitters. Maybe even construct a turret in the middle of the room, then lure security/validhunters inside and have a fight.

.... that just brings this scene to mind.

Oldman Robustin · Mon Jul 13, 2015 5:21 pm

Babin wrote:Toxins. Make three bombcap bombs with timers and use a hand labeler to name them "Bomb 1" "Bomb 2" and "Bomb 4"

Announce that there are four bombs aboard the station. Watch as the station finds your three bombs (either by managing to locate them, or the bomb actually exploding) and devolves into a panic as they search for Bomb 3 and can't find it.

Let me finish that story for you.

Crew grabs and tears apart the three bombs ASAP without regard for what the hand labeler says, its a stupid chaotic mess and nobody keeps track of how many were found, disarmed, and removed... after a while nothing explodes and people just assume they got them all, and if they didn't, meh - one bomb isn't really that scary.

Or someone realizes that this is an exact duplicate of a classic prank and gives no shits.

DemonFiren wrote:I wanna dismantle and space the solars, then sneakily deconstruct all PACMANs, then the cargo ordering consoles, drop a powersink and finally chuck out the PA.

Then I wanna see what people will do.

1) Isolate RND from power grid
2) Use the bajillions of highcap power cells to replace the dead one in your APC
3) Use the protolathe to make 100 bluespaceprotomegaultracap power cells

As for me, the gun idea is too hard to pull off and its really no different than just cornering someone with a gun anywhere else. So here's my new one:

1) Be a scientist, take a hostage somewhere super public like the holodeck/dorms, vacant office, etc.... make sure the hostage is someone people actually want to save.

2) Lay all sorts of stupid traps, lube into emagged crushers, maybe a couple canisters of c02 opened when they get close,maybe airlock det. charges for a couple of the closest airlocks too, super tryhard if I can get some gold slimes.

3) Watch it all through a bugged cam and then detonate the 3 (to avoid bomb suspicions) or 6 (fuck it, I want the server to feel it) bombs you've laid under all the nearby once a sufficient critical mass of crew coming to see/help the situation.

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:41 am #104989

I'm keen to play a round as sole cargo/QM where mining gives me 500+ plasma, buy as many supermatter crates as I can, emag them all open, and then put them underneath airlocks.

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:13 am #105000

This is dead simple to the point I don't know why this doesnt happen all the time.

>Order supermatter shard
>Place shard at disposals so anything going through flys right into it without any chance of avoiding it
>Setup a few disposal inlets in the corridors for good measure

The shard would explode eventually, but they could be easily avoided by walling off the area with the shard, and removing a floor to make it a vaccum.
People wouldn't even be able to call for help before getting dusted.

Yell over comms that disposals is routed into the captain's office etc for extra laughs.

invisty · Post by **invisty** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:38 am #105002

You can pull off a lot of murderous shit with disposals. Disposals into conveyor+shocked door, disposals into emagged crusher, disposals into space. The hardest part is getting people into disposals in the first place. Supermatter shards are the most evil, but they can break on the first touch. What would be a good set of gear if you wanted to aggressively disposal people? EMP flashlight + stun weapon -> disposals?

Post by **lumipharon** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 6:30 am #105027

Zombie powder. Get the damp rag, make zombie powder and you've got yourself a reusable parapen of old (only better, since it looks like you're dragging a corpse instead of a stunned guy).

Luke Cox · Post by **Luke Cox** » Fri Jul 17, 2015 10:58 am #105058

Jumping off the zombie powder, I'd like to inject somebody with enough zombie powder to keep them out for a long time, and then cremate/space them alive in the chapel, public funeral and all.

Babin · Post by **Babin** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 12:50 pm #105327

Luke Cox wrote:Jumping off the zombie powder, I'd like to inject somebody with enough zombie powder to keep them out for a long time, and then cremate/space them alive in the chapel, public funeral and all.

Unfortunately, zombie powder does minor damage and would kill them in a few minutes without intervention. Charcoal/pentetic acid would heal it, but would also purge any zombie powder in them and cause them to wake up. Omnizine would keep them alive for a while, but an overdose would rapidly kill them and a safe dose will only buy a few minutes, plus this would depend on botany. Drinks that heal toxloss (iced tea, tea, and lime juice) would help, but you'd need a LOT to delay it long enough. With no drinks, they'll take .5 damage per tick. Each drink heals .2 on average per tick (20% chance of 1 damage). Two drinks will delay things for a very very long time, three would heal them very slowly.

Then you'd have to contend with roboticists and geneticists wanting to borg or clone the person. For that, you could perhaps use a voice changer and steal their ID after KOing them, then announce that you don't want to be cloned and that you're going to shock yourself or something. That might work especially well if your target is in the medbay and you steal their headset to tell them of your 'funeral wishes.' Or just get lucky with a round where nobody gives a shit about borging/cloning.

Malkevin · Post by **Malkevin** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:01 pm #105328

I want to do a Kill Them With Kindness execution.

Have a capital criminal in the interview room, have a friendly chat with them.
Act like I'm their friend, give them a smoke, have more friendly conversion and then offer them a drink - where I'd then smash the vodka bottle over their head and laugh as the lit cig sets the alchohol on fire and they go up in flames.

I'd probably say a witty one liner before smashing the bottle on them, though I'm drawing blanks on what that could be.

Steelpoint · Post by **Steelpoint** » Sat Jul 18, 2015 1:08 pm #105329

If I ever do decide to try and play as a traitor I really just want to get a Sketchin with a silencer and kill people, I'll likely want to set up some hacked autolath (or whatever its called) so I can spare my TC's for equipment that is not ammo.

The only problem being that if a sec borg rolls up I'll be in trouble.

Not-Dorsidarf · Sat Jul 18, 2015 8:11 pm

Steelpoint wrote:If I ever do decide to try and play as a traitor I really just want to get a Sketchin with a silencer and kill people, I'll likely want to set up some hacked autolath (or whatever its called) so I can spare my TC's for equipment that is not ammo.

The only problem being that if a sec borg rolls up I'll be in trouble.

Stetchkins come with the silencer free now, to beat burger spend extra TC on an EMP kit, spam the implant when they roll up, then throw the grenade at them to wreck their shit, and blow them away if still alive