/tg/Station 13

Zybwivcz

Is my interpretation of that wrong?

Of the logs where the very final thing the captain tells me to do is "take him to med" after earlier telling me to take him to med and then arrest him? I think so.

Acting in your own capacity as if you were security and getting validly killed as a result ...

Zybwivcz

If nobody in security authorised it

I would suggest the captain saying "Take them to medbay and then arrest them" constitutes an authorization to take them to medbay and arrest them.

or the player in question didn't know it had been authorised by security

I would suggest the player in ...

Zybwivcz

Non-Peanut

This is a "My Bad" situation. The HoP was telling me one thing, you were telling me another, and I was inclined to believe the HoP because I thought I remembered your static as being a troublemaking grey

https://bus.moth.fans/tickets/204152/6
He was an assistant, had broken into HoP ...

Zybwivcz

If sec players feel like they absolutely have to wordlessly arrest people and run them back to the brig to get anything done, then we have a problem.

If

Tell me you don't play highpop LRP SEC without telling me you don't play highpop LRP SEC.

"SEC has to announce to the tider why he's ...

Zybwivcz

If sec players feel like they absolutely have to wordlessly arrest people and run them back to the brig to get anything done, then we have a problem.

If

Tell me you don't play highpop LRP SEC without telling me you don't play highpop LRP SEC.

"SEC has to announce to the tider why he's ...

Zybwivcz

The SM killing engineers for tiny mistakes or bad luck is the point.

Zybwivcz

Hmm. Make MMI'ing the brain full-heal the ling and teleport them to a random station turf. It's dumb as hell but kinda undermines the identification if it also guarantees escape (?) There's probably better ideas but could the act of MMI-ing the brain be suitably disincentivised by such a penalty ...

Zybwivcz

Bulky batons would only be an antag "nerf" to the extent that every antag who can use stunbatons makes getting one a top priority.

It would be a buff to antag gear in that antags would now have an actual reason to use it, instead of getting for free something better than nearly all of it three ...

Zybwivcz

That's it. That's the whole idea.

Still fits in security belts and sec clothing external storage.

Zybwivcz

I didnt feel the need to verify the HoP's claims for a IC conflict. If they turned out to be false due to miscommunication in-game that's part of the game.

It stops being an IC conflict when he asks an admin for permission and gets it. Before that, he's responsible for his own fuckup. When an ...

Zybwivcz

I then set a headset message to them saying message received while a prepped a centcom official to head to the station. In the time i was briefing them about what they were there for, you teleported onto open space and fell into lava.
Also shortly after i received the fax they said this to the ...

Zybwivcz

When and where this incident occurred: Sybil
Byond account and character name: Zybwivcz / Kellen Black
Admin: Rageguy505
Round ID: 198491

I'm the RD. Standing in the brig on icestation. Franchesca Kafka (diegospartan) the HoP comes in, batons me. I'm wearing the teleport armor. I'm teleported ...

Zybwivcz

I didn't steal the antique, I found it in a random locker. So I wasn't valid like the assistant stealing the hand tele would be.

It applies to having high value items you aren't authorized to have. "The captain gave this to me personally" is authorization. "I just found this somewhere and ...

Zybwivcz

I didn't steal the antique, I found it in a random locker. So I wasn't valid like the assistant stealing the hand tele would be.

An assistant running around with a high value item like the hand tele or antique laser(you had both) and one who "found it" lying around is still valid because they ...

Zybwivcz

hey, basically the reason i ruled this ic was because i asked about it in an admin channel and they told me that it was fine, with the reasoning being you didnt have to shoot the revolver but you did, twice, when you could've just left the revolver there or walked away.

This is true. I was not ...

Zybwivcz

When and where this incident occured: Sybil
Byond account and character name OR Discord name: Zybwivcz/Rocco Kepplinger
Admin: Trexter555
Round ID: 195787
https://scrubby.melonmesa.com/round/195787
https://sb.atlantaned.space/rounds/195787

What Happened:
I was CE, shuttle was about to depart, I'm ...

Zybwivcz

No reason to not make job bans public and every reason to do so for the stated cause of transparency and diagnosing policy and enforcement failures

Zybwivcz

The only way to have SEC work is clearly defined rules instead of incredibly vague suggestions.

But the most recent SEC rule changes have been in the opposite direction.

Zybwivcz

I like officers who put the story and everyone’s collective fun before their own. I don’t like officers who are only interested in ridding the station of any and all threats.

The purpose of SEC is to rid the station of threats.

I like it when officers talk to the crew, give antags chances ...

Zybwivcz

IDK, most people don't resist if you explain the situation and are fair.

Exactly zero tiders really do this, I don't know where the fantasy that they do come from. Is it some manuel thing?

otherwise just be prepared to arrest people, its what sec does, its pretty understandable to resist ...

Zybwivcz

That's not how reasonable grounds works, as a community we all have a metric for what reasonable grounds would be, and when it is challenged it is discussed.

Putting an officer into crit because you think you might get an unfair sentence requires evidence that the officer intends to give you ...

Zybwivcz

In the second case you are talking about, they did ahelp.

Well, shows what I know.

I formally retract any and all criticism of AwkwardStereo and redirect it at Timberpoes for not making it clear he wasn' t just making up the justification on his own but repeating something the ahelper lied ...

Zybwivcz

Plus: Admits when he's made a mistake, resolves to do better next time.
Minus: Next time makes the same mistake, but worse.

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=31342

Only talks briefly with someone who ahelps, fails to get important information before making a decision on an issue ...

Zybwivcz

The admins do and there's general community standards, its not up to the shitter to decide, its up to the admin to decide.

This leads to a situation where whether or not a particular action is bwoinkable or perfectly acceptable varies wildly depending on which admin responds and how they're ...

Zybwivcz

Given that what's the minimum bar someone has to clear to escalate against SEC?

Escalate and kill aren't the same thing here, Escalation has tiers, if the offier is arresting non lethally, you don't have grounds to escalate to lethally unless you have reasonable grounds to assume the arrest ...

Zybwivcz

If no-one ever mentions the sentence, who can say it's excessive.

An admin, who claims it could have been implied .

Also if when asked 'why did you do that to the sec officer' they make no mention of thinking its due to an excessive sentence then they'd better probably add that in the appeal ...

Zybwivcz

I actually wrote a long winded list of hypotheticals, think i've been answering too many headmin election questions :D

As ever the context is the key.

The short form is if the tider played absolute best faith, i'd be between noting through to role and even server banning the sec who started it ...

Zybwivcz

The version you write as "don't deserve to be arrested for" literally means people can tide engi storage and then forcefully resist the 2 minute brig sentence because, in their opinion, they don't deserve to be arrested, at all, for any length of time.

The last part is where my concerns about ...

Zybwivcz

the common situation of "I've committed a crime but I don't think it's worth being arrested over"
SS13 on TG is an RP game and e.g. breaking into armory, caps office, etc, are all valid arrestable offences. However tickets come up very regularly that show some players simply don't get this ...

Zybwivcz

the common situation of "I've committed a crime but I don't think it's worth being arrested over"
SS13 on TG is an RP game and e.g. breaking into armory, caps office, etc, are all valid arrestable offences. However tickets come up very regularly that show some players simply don't get this and ...

Zybwivcz

In case it is not obvious--"valid arrest" refers to an arrest placed on you when you have not committed a crime. This can easily happen when the security officer is playing in good faith given the dynamics of Space Station 13.

It would be nice if this policy covered the common situation of "I ...

Zybwivcz

If a headmin appeal goes unanswered for a week then it should automatically be approved. Or just this one, I don't care.

Is the problem I need to add more detail? Because I can do that.

Zybwivcz

I'm going to stop trying to get the last word in this argument because it is wasting both of our times.

Fine. I invoke the ancient ritual of Headmin Review.

To summarize: the ban completely ignores the fully justified reason I had to consider the mime a dangerous antag. The reason I acted as ...

Zybwivcz

The mime is not allowed to resist a valid arrest , by your own admission they were guilty at an absolute minimum of trespassing into the brig which is a valid reason for arrest.
Non-antagonists should not harmfully resist or retaliate against valid arrests, but do not have to simply give up and ...

Zybwivcz

So you threaten the Mime with perma-brigging for the crime of trespassing into the Brig and you decide to initiate an arrest. In this process the Mime is still allowed to resist the arrest. The part where it becomse improper is if they start stripping you or physically harming you, which they did ...

Zybwivcz

BYOND account: zybwivcz
Character name: Cristopher Power
Ban type: Server/Role
Ban length: 3 Days/Permanent
Ban reason: Executed and stripped an arrested player because an admin spawned mob interferred briefly with their arrest. Killed this player behind brig doors where the mob could no longer ...

Zybwivcz

Upon discussing it with the team, we agree to remove the final sentence in the note: "Was talked to and told if they continued this behavior it would likely result in a large ban, hold them to it."
The intent of the note is to provide a strong impression and reminder for how you choose to play ...

Zybwivcz

You were asked to show that the note was factually wrong by providing evidence that you habitually talk with your crewmembers beyond the end-goal of validhunting.
You placed a note for "constant validhunting" but you've failed to explain what you consider "validhunting" or provide a single ...

Zybwivcz

I finally figured this out:

From Ticket #8 during round 183737 on Sybil
Ticket opened at 2022-05-25 01:07:29 by coffeedragon16
Log:
01:07:29: Ticket Opened by-coffeedragon16: hey there, why'd you kill junaiper values? she was cuffed, unarmed and in perma it's ridiculously unfun to do that
01 ...

Zybwivcz

However, to establish the accuracy of their claim it would require Coffee to go through every single shift in the past month or two and compile a complete dossier on your conduct as a player.

Not every single shift. Just one. That's all. A single shift.

I'm saying if Coffee wants to give me a ...

Zybwivcz

show evidence of shifts where you interact with the crew more meaningfully

It would help to have a more precise idea of what this means, and what sort of evidence would satisfy you. That's the problem with trying to prove a negative. And if you ask me to show evidence of interacting "more ...

Zybwivcz

If CoffeeDragon16 thinks I'm "constant[ly] validhunting as security while almost never talking" then it should be trivial for them to note me for that sort of conduct when it actually happens. That's what "constant" means. That something is happening constantly.
Especially because admins can "talk ...

Zybwivcz

That might make sense if the incident which caused CoffeeDragon to bwoink me was "close to breaking Rule 12". It pretty clearly was not. That's my point. It wasn't toeing the line, it wasn't even in the ballpark. Walking into the brig and seeing someone wearing a heretic focus is not validhunting ...

Zybwivcz

From a recent policy discussion thread, "Rule 12 and Security":

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=31248

2) Is security allowed to execute captured antagonists who are at high risk for posing a future threat (e.g., .357 in bag, cult dagger, heretic focus, etc.), but who otherwise ...

Zybwivcz

Again, it's not rule breaking. It's not adjacent to rule breaking. It's not adjacent to adjacent to rule breaking. It's entirely the expected resolution of finding a heretic. It's normal, acceptable, advisable conduct.
Correct. This is not why I gave you the note, and it is not relevant ...

Zybwivcz

As I said in both the ticket and the appeal, the situation with the heretic was not rule-breaking. I was missing information when I ahelped you, and told you this once I realized my mistake. I made the note because of your history as security, and not because of the heretic.

Again, it's not ...

Zybwivcz

You are misunderstanding what I said here. I said that if you never saw them use the spell, I found that unreasonable, as traitors and changelings still get brigged even though they could have an implant or an armblade.

Nobody permabrigs changelings because that would be stupid. When a changeling ...

Zybwivcz

BYOND account: Zybwivcz
Character Name: Josh Meyers
Ban type: Note
Ban length: N/A
Round Number: 183740
Time ban was placed: 2022-05-25 02:10:27
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Your side of the story:

I caught a heretic in the brig, they were wearing one of those eyeball ...

Zybwivcz

Some miner brought several gibtonite onto a BYOS shuttle, while trying to pick one up I(engineering SEC officer) used the wrong hand and hit it instead of grabbing it with an empty hand, which started it blinking. I tried to toss it out the door but they had been sealed shut with windows by ...

Zybwivcz

BYOND account: Zybwivcz
Character Name: Jeb Jerome
Ban type: Server
Ban length: 1 day
Ban reason: Detonated gibtonite on the escape shuttle that resulted in a sizeable hole(round id was 183448)
Time ban was placed: 2022-05-20- 04:47:32
Server you were playing on when banned: Sybil
Round ID in which ...

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