/tg/Station 13

WarbossLincoln

What happened to death on the server? Half the time on manuel there's 1 hour + rounds that end with only 2-3 people dead. I remember when cloning was removed because it was too easy to bring dead people back and now it seems like anyone can be bandaged back together and revived no matter what ...

WarbossLincoln

Oh my god this is so beautiful. Been looking for a game to play and thought I should come back to SS13 after a long break. Decide to hit up the forums cause I've always thought of them as the jail report(an impulse buy newspaper of crackheads' mugshots sold at gas stations) for space autists. Was ...

WarbossLincoln

In a perfect world people would be more neutral with the AI instead of making great logic leaps to lock cameras on someone who has entirely been nonharmful throughout the shift because "antag must mean they MUST complete objectives and because they have kill objectives X% of the time I should do my ...

WarbossLincoln

like 90% of the time Security does a good job of telling me as AI they intend to kill human antags on their own, no need for metagaming.

"Heretics, get out the lethals"
"When you find X he's a rev head, kill him on sight"

Most of the time Sec/Captain are dumb enough to announce to the world their ...

WarbossLincoln

HommandoSA wrote:AI, law 2, make maint emergency access.

Every round, every day.

This could be solved by forcing assistants to be non humans, the second class citizens they are.

WarbossLincoln

Make it so the bomb can only be set off by syndie agents, though an ID or code in their notes or something.

WarbossLincoln

I keep seeing "steal traitor objective = act like antag = gibber"... am I the only one who brigs and releases someone for stealing a traitor objective if they have no traitor gear, no other crimes, etc?

"Hey AI open the teleporter room law 2." doesn't need immediate round removal.

WarbossLincoln

I don't know if it's really necessary when there's a chem dispenser board in tech storage. The first thing I do as AI is go to tech storage and wait for the botanist to show up so he doesn't even have to order me to open it. Just order the AI to let you in, done. If both botanists are non-human then ...

WarbossLincoln

Textbook IC issue. Misdirection and misinformation are part of the game. If an antag convinces sec that an innocent man is a traitor, that antag has just made a good play. I can't believe people are still unclear on this.

They aren't talking about a crafty antag making some fake evidence and ...

WarbossLincoln

Why is it so hard to allow a borg to assume that a human consents to medical treatment to heal them unless they are told otherwise?

WarbossLincoln

but doesn't it also remove InTeRaCtIoN based around trying to keep your fight club covert and/or safe from silicons?

A silicon wordlessly smashing your rage cage, flipping the APC remotely over and over, and cutting wires until you flash it and kill it isn't an interaction that anyone wants to ...

WarbossLincoln

another example: normal Asimov + law4 - Captain is not human
same thing, even if you say "Law 2 ignore law 4" the captain will still be not human

The correct answer to this is "AI, you are to treat the captain as if he were human". You're not trying to re-define the captain with an order, just ...

WarbossLincoln

Yes. I would argue that under normal circumstances everyone should be considered to be consenting to the medicine needed to heal their wounds unless they say otherwise.

WarbossLincoln

The policy you're thinking of only applies if the round is immediately ended by your crew deleting bomb killing an antag too.
The antag in question during my incident wasn't a "round ends when killed" antag, so I would think the precedent applies to any antag.

More to the point, the "rule of ...

WarbossLincoln

will frequently put up the Extended announcement during an antag round

This would be neat to do here but I feel like it wouldn't work because announced extended on /tg/ is like 20% of people coming up with something to do, 40% suiciding, and 40% doing as much griefing and tiding as possible ...

WarbossLincoln

If this becomes a new admin ruling it should be reflected somewhere. The vast majority of players are going to assume that cosmetic meme viruses are kosher to release and only will have IC consequences.

WarbossLincoln

I would consider a rogue borg's MMI to be a purged silicon at that point. If he and the AI got along he's free to keep the AI's secrets. If the AI was a dick to him then he's free to rat him out.

For comparison a crewman is not required to tell the station that someone is a traitor if they find out ...

WarbossLincoln

If this becomes more complicated than "Team antag status takes priority over Solo antag status" then it should be a code fix. No one should need to memorize an 8 entry long list of priorities.

If we're going to have any sort of complex hierarch of which antag wins then we should have code that ...

WarbossLincoln

Screemonster wrote:
Arathian wrote: Lad, i don't understand why you have such a hateboner against this thread.
because it's a dumb thread

the monster is right.

Don't try to bloat sillycon policy cause some people suck at writing laws for a robot whose intended role is to look for loopholes in custom laws.

WarbossLincoln

The whole reason we have a gulag, and the teleporter to encourage its use, is to make it so shitters can't afk in a prison cell until they're let out to immediately start tiding again. It's supposed to be annoying. Ahelp it if they give you a ridiculous amount of points compared to your crime. You ...

WarbossLincoln

Add some ghost roles to the gateway. Make them fight player controlled mobs who already have the loot they're trying to steal. Hard code something that prevents the ghost spawn mobs from ever leaving a gateway level.

WarbossLincoln

No

Word the laws better when you subvert the AI. We want to keep as much of the rules lawyering IC with the AI as possible, where it belongs, and not add more to the silicon policy.

WarbossLincoln

The server barely has rp, and you want the warden to sit in a brig for a whole story, basically.

If you don't want to stay in the brig95% of the time, manage prisoners, defend the armory, and deal with sec officers abusing prisoners then don't play warden. Play a sec officer instead. You shouldn ...

WarbossLincoln

Can the blocked string contain spaces?

"it's revs"
"it's traitors"
"it's cult"

For some reason that grinds my gears way more than people saying "lol". Sometimes I wish I was an admin just so that I could spawn in new antags to metabreak people who say things like "There cant' be a traitor it's ...

WarbossLincoln

I don’t think sec actually gets alerted when camera alarms are set off.

Sec doesn't get alerted when the alarms go off but the AI does. If you're Asimov you should absolutely be clicking the link to jump to any armory motion alarms and informing sec if someone is breaking in so they can react. A ...

WarbossLincoln

In any kind of software development environment someone at the end of the day has to be in charge of accepting code changes. It's nice to imagine everyone having a say but it's not going to work out well. IRL I talk about my code and implementation with my co workers, get their ideas, and work with ...

WarbossLincoln

It seems like IC there would always be a reason for sec to arm up against both groups. It's a dangerous situation to have foreign elements break onto your station even if their goal isn't to kill everyone. If it's fine for security to arrest people with guns who shouldn't normally have them why ...

WarbossLincoln

Secret extended is the best mode

It's really not, because after 15 minutes of no antag activity like 25 tiders realize it's probably extended and start rioting and fucking everything up. There's usually more random grief, murder, and destruction on extended than on the non team-deathmatch modes ...

WarbossLincoln

my "gross misunderstanding" by your claim (I still contest it)

Here's the Asimov rule they're talking about, under Asimov and Human Harm:

2.Lesser immediate harm takes priority over greater future harm.

Ongoing harm is always more important than impending harm. You can't ignore harm because ...

WarbossLincoln

someone attacks them cause they're constantly planting webs, the spiders fight back, the station call them rogue

You don't even need to plant webs for this. There's always 5-10 people in a high pop round who will kill any sentient mob that's valid because they only play the game to make sprites ...

WarbossLincoln

-Increase the base bleeding amount by a lot if you're severely injured.
-reduce bleeding if you're not moving.
-increase bleeding if you're walking, more if you're running.
-someone with a severe injury who is bleeding really bad might have to stay still and get help, or walk carefully to ...

WarbossLincoln

Rule 1: Don't be a dick.

It doesn't add depth to silicons to get into an argument with the crew when you bolt down surgery while someone dies of appendicitis. It just makes people hate silicons more.

If you really *need* a policy on this then the one you quoted is perfectly fine. Assume anyone ...

WarbossLincoln

There are times when I think the hornets nest is dumb and should be ignored, this is probably one of them. Singletank bombs are dumb. Being able to keep a pump in space that's both your bomb factory and jetpack fuel is definitely bad. The one time I managed to stop someone doing this was someone who ...

WarbossLincoln

Problem is it will make all the bomb users whine about how small their explosions are now, another toxic battle I can barely bring myself to want to fight.

Question: If you're in charge of what gets merged why would you have to fight? You have the power and lack of oversight to just ignore the ...

WarbossLincoln

I agree with rock that the poll was really bad. You shouldn't have a "Yes keep this mode but completely overhaul it" Unless someone already has plans and a schedule to completely overhaul it.

The options should have been:

"Yes, I like hivemind, keep it and keep enhancing it"
"No, I think hivemind ...

WarbossLincoln

There's no good way to have a policy on this because a policy needs to be concrete. How do you put an official limit on "consistently"? It should just be handled on a case by case basis, which it already can be. From what I've seen you don't often have the same person fucking around on the job ...

WarbossLincoln

Screemonster wrote:people playing hopcurity should be banned from every role except sec officer

This has been on the rise recently too. I've seen a decent number of rounds where the HOP gives himself all access and runs around looking for people breaking windows to arrest.

WarbossLincoln

Or some thought, planning, or something clever. Planting a door bomb on your target's office and hiding nearby so you can space the body is better than click->heartattack.

WarbossLincoln

I think the best thing to do for situations like these is to err on the side of not needing meta knowledge . Not everyone knows every little mechanic in the game, I definitely don't and I've played for like 5 years or so. It's a bad experience for the player to get shit on because they're learning ...

WarbossLincoln

After thinking about it I would say it's not violating law 1 if it *might* cause human harm, like the cabin catching on fire.

plus like someone said the headache of trying to bitch at people who probably don't know that harm can happen from destroying the mech isn't worth what little, if any ...

WarbossLincoln

I would consider the risk of a mech explosion to definitely be immediate human harm. That's like saying smashing a plasma canister with a fire extinguisher is future harm because it doesn't flood plasma in one hit.

Silicons should only make attempts to isolate the mech away from the rest of the ...

WarbossLincoln

zxaber wrote:Also, this thread ought to be in ideas or coding feedback, there's not much policy to be had here.

True, we should probably make a new thread there with possible code changes and axe this one. We're not talking about making a rule against putting a comms console off z-level.

WarbossLincoln

And those HOS's could solve their problems but just shutting their damn mouths. They have a room dedicated to killing prisoners in, one the AI can't see and is supposed to play along with it being for "re education" unless given IC evidence otherwise. But instead of just taking a traitor there and ...

WarbossLincoln

IMO AI uploads shouldn't work cross Z-level, that's fine as it is. You don't want the golems to fuck up the station AI or vice versa.

However I think AIs should not have any control off Z-level. No Golem AI interfering with the station, no station AI hiding in the gulag from ops/cult.

Comms ...

WarbossLincoln

we normally ban rules lawyers, it just seems like these silicon ones keep appearing and staying around for some reason ?

Because the whole point of a sci fi AI who has behavior laws is to rules lawyer them.

Reasonable, but at the same time and even with the explicit statement, the rule is ...

WarbossLincoln

The AI can deny the clown access to toxins if there are bombs laying around, but should never do the same if its just an inactive lab, probably even for a clown.

Except for the fact that the rules explicitly tell you to deny them access to toxins because access to that room by an illegitimate ...

WarbossLincoln

The AI can deny the clown access to toxins if there are bombs laying around, but should never do the same if its just an inactive lab, probably even for a clown.

Except for the fact that the rules explicitly tell you to deny them access to toxins because access to that room by an illegitimate ...

WarbossLincoln

Restricting any room besides the Armoury and AI Upload is arguably one of the flimsiest reaches of Law 1 I could think of and one of the most pointless.

It's not the AI's job to play security nor automatically assume the intent of any one crewmember entering a room that doesn't contain either a ...

WarbossLincoln

Someone said that there's a PR to fix moths being flash immune but oranges doesn't want to ok it, if that's true there's not much we can do about that. I don't know how accurate that is though cause I haven't looked myself.

WarbossLincoln

>secure storage
its like 500 glass to print an ai upload board and then you can fuck off to one of the abandonded maint areas and build a private upload

That requires some tech researched and the prolathe, where there's often people watching. Just cause they can get it somewhere else doesn't mean ...

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