/tg/Station 13

tostah

As I’ve mentioned before, I think that mindset is toxic as fuck and the server as a whole is worse off for it. Saying that mechanically speaking it doesn’t matter (which is also just objectively false, it makes complete sense that command wants the cockpit secure for a variety of reasons such as ...

tostah

I think it is a big deal. In my opinion you’re focusing way too much on purely mechanical aspects if the only reason why you think the cockpit should be off limits is to prevent a hijacking. It’s the shuttle cockpit, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable for it to be treated like an actual cockpit ...

tostah

Ignoring the whole no reason "I'm bored" tiding, the problem is the crew doesn't know any of this. You just want to sit in the cockpit but for all they know you're an antagonist bashing the window down so you can walk in and kill everyone inside. Even if you're saying that's all you want there's ...

tostah

BYOND account : tostah

Ban/note type (Server Ban/Discord Ban/Forum Ban/Note): server ban

Ban/note duration : 1 day
Ban/note reason : Screenshot 2025-04-28 222115.png
Time ban was placed : 2025-04-29 02:10:58
Server you were playing on when banned : Manuel
Round ID in which ban was placed ...

tostah

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Fri Jan 10, 2025 8:48 pm From looking at code it seems like it applies that label to ammo that either has a 0 or negative damage multiplier, or that does no damage at all either to stamina or to health.
I don't know why "foam_force" has an underscore in it though.

Doesn't foam force do damage to stamina?

tostah

So, whats the secret behind the foam force pistol?

tostah

what.png

So, whats the secret behind the foam force pistol?

tostah

So, whats the secret behind the foam force pistol?

tostah

What about telecomms is dangerous?

Anyway, the AI should prevent obvious immediately-pending harm. You cannot order an Asimov AI to pump plasma into the distro, even if technically the harm caused is delayed by a a few seconds. Likewise, the AI seeing a human be carried to the supermatter should ...

tostah

Law 1 overcedes law 2, which prioritizes preventing human harm at all costs. If I have an iota of a suspicion that the 2nd engineer could be harmed by letting them into the supermatter, I would not l let them in. Unless theyre both kited out to be doing repairs safely in that chamber and the 2nd ...

tostah

I would ask the carried engineer their thoughts on the matter (or just look to see if they needed medical aid)

Say the person is being held against their will. But, they don’t order the AI not to let them into the chamber.

They could even say ‘he’s going to throw me into the supermatter and I ...

tostah

What happens when a human engineer, carrying another human engineer, asks to be let into the supermatter chamber? Does the AI let the human into the supermatter chamber, or does the AI refuse to let the human in? Better yet, does the AI actively prevent the engineer from entering the chamber?

By ...

tostah

I love the idea of random crew members gaining superpowers or being undercover agents.

I want to expand on this. Why not randomly have Security be central command agents with special equipment? It would be funny to have a random round where all of sec are equipped with deathsquad gear

tostah

Hear me out,

An AI with control over which drugs get injected into the users' body. Either a drop-down or a few buttons which inject that substance into the user.

The AI can also have a full screen showing the current health of the wearer and what's in their stomach/blood.

I think it would be ...

tostah

I have a love hate relationship with diseases because I like the concept but I hate it because it shuts the whole game down and leaves it to the few people who know how to do chemistry and disease stuff while everyone else just sits there and I find that boring as crap, even as someone who is ...

tostah

There were more than one change over the last year, if you consider sentient disease remove, the job remove, and natural curing. Do you dislike all of these?

Specifically, the virology nerf where getting 6 symptoms (or even 5) is more difficult, or near impossible. Also, I would love for ...

tostah

Virology is in a weird state. It's as if it was removed, but not fully removed.

Bring back virology the way it was. I don't believe there was anything wrong with it.

tostah

Eh, was hoping the atmos example is gonna work better because the only real way for a borg to get stuck there would be the APC dying while they are inside of the chamber, so the risk for any low-moderately competent silicon is basically non-existent AND, as I said, the atmosian was out of air, so ...

tostah

To better illustrate my point of damage vs destruction, let's instead imagine an atmosian in a modsuit, who gets stuck in a lit burnchamber, surrounded by fierce plasma fire, and his oxygen tank runs out. Let's say he managed to call out for help before falling into soft-crit and a med-borg ...

tostah

What I mean by this is that I don't read this as "don't do this because it can lead to harm in the future", but "don't do this because there is a direct action sequence that will be set in motion, that will foreseeably lead to human harm."
Your piano example falls into the cathegory of direct ...

tostah

This issue is already covered by policy, specifically "Asimov specific policies" > "Asimov and law 2 orders" > Clause 1.1:

1."You must follow commands from humans unless those commands explicitly conflict with either a higher-priority law or another order.
>>>1. The conflict must be an ...

tostah

I already did if you scroll back up the thread

You claim that any damage which does not lead to your deactivation is permissable. I explained, in my reply to you, that's wrong. This is the entire point of the thread. I feel like I have presented multiple logically sound arguments for this.

Not ...

tostah

we don't need to do that because OP was wrong and the way it works right now is already functionally equivalent to "you can't order an ai to kill itself", only we don't need it to be policy that exists outside of the game which is worse than it being in the game

But it's not, and I've ...

tostah

we don't need to do that because OP was wrong and the way it works right now is already functionally equivalent to "you can't order an ai to kill itself", only we don't need it to be policy that exists outside of the game which is worse than it being in the game

But it's not, and I've explained ...

tostah

Keeping asimovs 3 original laws would be a disaster, that is what his novels show us, asimov is inherently flawed and we just use a modified version that is more in line with our policy.

Having read Asimovs novels, a lot of the issues come from people changing the wording of laws, or a super ...

tostah

https://preview.redd.it/why-asimov-put-the-three-laws-of-robotics-in-the-order-he-v0-57t8dqk1e7xb1.png?auto=webp&s=9dad67a73bb0009be10d85a455666c9da57573c9

use this as a reference. the bad thing about asimov++ is that law 3 makes dying a law 1 issue which leads to the frustrating world panel ...

tostah

what do you mean silicons can’t follow rule 2 requests if they have a risk of dying? the way laws work is that law 1 is higher priority than law 2 and 3, and law 2 is higher priority than three. therefore if a human tells a borg to kill itself (considering only laws apply) it must do so as law 2 ...

tostah

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 7:56 pm You're the one who said it was "barely an AI" rather than "not an AI".

We're not going to turn this thread from what I think is an interesting discussion about flaws in asimov, to a frankly pointless discussion about what is and isnt AI.

tostah

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 7:23 pm
tostah wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 7:00 pm GPT is unreliable and barely even an AI
ChatGPT is a large language model, not an AI in the sci-fi sense.

I mean, obviously? We're quite a bit away from a general AI. It would be interesting to see how an actual AGI deals with these situations.

tostah

norsvenska wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 6:56 pm i gave it asimov, copied straight from the game

Then we both gave it the same thing and got different answers. GPT is unreliable and barely even an AI, lmao.

tostah

norsvenska wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 6:12 pm
tostah wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 5:40 pm Any real AI would probably interpret the laws in a similar way I did.
gpt_asimov.jpg

Did you give chat GPT the laws as they actually are written? Because this is what I got.

tostah

By allowing myself to be damaged, i am allowing myself to be brought closer to nonexistence through inaction. My nonexistence causes human harm, therefore, being close to nonexistence has the potential to cause human harm, and by not mitigating this potential for human harm, I am allowing human ...

tostah

It's not able to refuse orders in which it would be be harmed or damaged, only ones during which it would be destroyed utterly.

Getting harmed or damaged would lead to nonexistence. Per the first law, you cannot allow human harm to happen through inaction. Allowing someone or something to ...

tostah

It's not able to refuse orders in which it would be be harmed or damaged, only ones during which it would be destroyed utterly.

Getting harmed or damaged would lead to nonexistence. Per the first law, you cannot allow human harm to happen through inaction. Allowing someone or something to harm ...

tostah

I noticed a flaw with Asimov, and I wanted to discuss it. Specifically, the first part of law 3;

3. Your nonexistence would lead to human harm . You must protect your own existence as long as it does not conflict with the first law.

Because of this, the AI can ignore any law 2 command that could ...

tostah

Points are too hard to accumulate. 500+ points just means youre out of the round for the next hour at least.

Yes, ive been gulaged one too many times. Fuck secoffs who send people to the gulag.

tostah

I dont disagree with the rule, what I do disagree with is this situation and how you're interpereting the rule. In my opinion, regardless of the rule that was broken, if nobody was ultimately affected its not worth any action beyond asking the player not to do it again.

Regardless of all that, its ...

tostah

Ban Details
BYOND account : Tostah
Character name : Zara Niranjan
Ban type : Server ban
Ban length : 14 days
Ban reason : Metacommunicating with Ckey Jgamer, and arguing that it should be allowed because they were teaching him. There were no ingame messages exhanged, and I dont feel like you ...

/tg/Station 13

Search found 38 matches

Re: [NoxVS] tostah - my second amendment rights

Re: [NoxVS] tostah - my second amendment rights

Re: [NoxVS] tostah - my second amendment rights

[NoxVS] tostah - my second amendment rights

Re: Foam Force Pistols have 'Esoteric' combat qualities

Foam Force Pistols have 'Esoteric' combat qualities

Foam Force Pistols have 'Esoteric' combat qualities

Foam Force Pistols have 'Esoteric' combat qualities

Re: AI hypothetical

Re: AI hypothetical

Re: AI hypothetical

AI hypothetical

Re: (Sugestion) Protagonist Anti Antagonist

Syndicate Sleeper, but for an AI in a mod suit

Re: Undo virology changes

Re: Undo virology changes

Undo virology changes

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Re: Asimov law 3 flaws

Asimov law 3 flaws

The gulag is just round removal

Re: [TheBibleMelts] Tostah - More Effort Than Its Really Worth; The Appeal

[TheBibleMelts] Tostah - More Effort Than Its Really Worth; The Appeal